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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2014 11:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    The conventional wisdom is that against a bigger guy I should keep my distance and punch/kick, but its true that the best fight enders are throws, chokes and arm/leg locks, which require you to move in. That's why I got into BJJ even when my MA friends at the time were calling it "dogfighting."
    Is this really the conventional wisdom? I really don't want to go toe to toe with a bigger guy in a striking match at all. Grappling? Sure why not. It is after all designed to use leverage and other factors that help mitigate the size advantage issues. I really really really don't want to stand and bang with someone bigger than me especially as that probably entails them having a reach advantage on me.
  2. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 12:04am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Is this really the conventional wisdom? I really don't want to go toe to toe with a bigger guy in a striking match at all. Grappling? Sure why not. It is after all designed to use leverage and other factors that help mitigate the size advantage issues. I really really really don't want to stand and bang with someone bigger than me especially as that probably entails them having a reach advantage on me.
    Well, the conventional wisdom against a big guy is to GTFO. The smaller man is at the classic disadvantage -- standing toe to toe sucks, and so does rolling with him, unless you're pretty sure your grappling skill is enough to make up for greater size and strength. I have heard that the best tactic, at least for a standup fighter, is "stick and move," and stay out of range as much as possible, but obviously if your talent is on the ground, then that's where you're gonna go.

    Edit: like I said, I do think the leverage based techniques are the best fight enders all around, but I've learned not to underestimate a big guy on the ground.
    Last edited by CapnMunchh; 1/08/2014 12:07am at .
  3. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 12:37am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    Well, my friend, the question is whether that says something about the information, or about your own knowledge.

    I am not interested in debating whether that technique is practical or not; I just state that the crescent kicks were (designed to be) used that way.

    Here are some examples:

    Tatsuo Shimabuku,founder of Isshinryu karate:
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o4Y8Stjjp9...ry__Tatsuo.jpg

    Using reverse crescent kick in Southern Mantis kungfu (about halfway down the page):
    http://wulin.proboards.com/index.cgi...rint&thread=59

    That is only the tip of iceberg as the discussion was about crescent kicks. But really, in karate kata and southern kungfu styles, majority of front and side kicks are done while grabbing the opponent.

    Of course, you are free to ignore that and swing your legs in the air freely.
    The same goes for the other gentlemen who are evidently too clever to learn anything new.
    I am just now reading this. I have to say I have studied a fair bit of krotty but given how much there is to learn perhaps this never came my way. My best lesson about grabbing lapels came when my instructor punched me in the collar bone just hard enough to let me know he could have broken it while I was sitting there with both hands locked on his lapels. Now, I try to imagine getting my foot up their in the same amount of time and it just seems impractical at best. But do as you please. Things have a way of sorting themselves out if they are actually tried.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  4. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 9:35am


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Well, the conventional wisdom against a big guy is to GTFO. The smaller man is at the classic disadvantage -- standing toe to toe sucks, and so does rolling with him, unless you're pretty sure your grappling skill is enough to make up for greater size and strength. I have heard that the best tactic, at least for a standup fighter, is "stick and move," and stay out of range as much as possible, but obviously if your talent is on the ground, then that's where you're gonna go.

    Edit: like I said, I do think the leverage based techniques are the best fight enders all around, but I've learned not to underestimate a big guy on the ground.
    So let me get this right:

    you are saying that powerful srikes are the only option when throwing hands and feet, fight smaller people but run away from larger people, and there are only a handful of moves that are useful because you consider them "fight enders?"

    It sounds to me like you are severely limiting yourself when it comes to fighting. Try something new. There is a lot more out there for you to discover. Try sticking your glove in a guys face and see what happens. Watch some mismatched weight class fights and get some inspiration.

    I've had my ass handed to me by quick little dudes with no power more times then I'd like to admit. There are a million paths to winning a fight. If you restrict yourself to one path before the fight even begins, you will only win in very specific scenarios.
  5. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 10:28am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Awesome View Post
    So let me get this right:

    you are saying that powerful srikes are the only option when throwing hands and feet, fight smaller people but run away from larger people, and there are only a handful of moves that are useful because you consider them "fight enders?"

    It sounds to me like you are severely limiting yourself when it comes to fighting. Try something new. There is a lot more out there for you to discover. Try sticking your glove in a guys face and see what happens. Watch some mismatched weight class fights and get some inspiration.

    I've had my ass handed to me by quick little dudes with no power more times then I'd like to admit. There are a million paths to winning a fight. If you restrict yourself to one path before the fight even begins, you will only win in very specific scenarios.
    No, there's also the option of relying on jabs, machine gun kicking, and rapid chain strikes, a la Chun. I prefer not to rely on those unless I'm sparring for points. I've seen and sparred with too many guys who are willing and able to eat a punch or a kick to get the takedown. The harder the strike, the less likely he will suck it up and keep coming.

    I said that there are some moves that are more likely to be fight enders, and those are chokes or the leverage based moves that attack the joints. Sure, striking wins too, particularly against people with less mobility -- there's enough videos of that around. But as VN said, its about percentages. I don't know anyone who can take a broken knee or elbow and continue to press the attack full on, and chokes work against everybody.

    Obviously we don't always get to pick who we fight, and I've had my ass kicked by smaller men too, on my feet and on the mat. Skill counts. But the bigger the dude the bigger the advantage he starts with, and you can't assume that you will have higher skill if you don't know the man. One of the best lessons I've gotten in my training is to always respect superior size and strength.

    I'm always happy to try new things -- at the dojo or gym. If it looks like its going to be for real, that's a different story; there may be a million ways to win a fight, but I'm not going to start doing the research just then.
  6. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 10:38am


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    No, there's also the option of relying on jabs, machine gun kicking, and rapid chain strikes, a la Chun. I prefer not to rely on those unless I'm sparring for points. I've seen and sparred with too many guys who are willing and able to eat a punch or a kick to get the takedown. The harder the strike, the less likely he will suck it up and keep coming.

    I said that there are some moves that are more likely to be fight enders, and those are chokes or the leverage based moves that attack the joints. Sure, striking wins too, particularly against people with less mobility -- there's enough videos of that around. But as VN said, its about percentages. I don't know anyone who can take a broken knee or elbow and continue to press the attack full on, and chokes work against everybody.

    Obviously we don't always get to pick who we fight, and I've had my ass kicked by smaller men too, on my feet and on the mat. Skill counts. But the bigger the dude the bigger the advantage he starts with, and you can't assume that you will have higher skill if you don't know the man. One of the best lessons I've gotten in my training is to always respect superior size and strength.

    I'm always happy to try new things -- at the dojo or gym. If it looks like its going to be for real, that's a different story; there may be a million ways to win a fight, but I'm not going to start doing the research just then.


    Yes. I did not also realize I should have specified that you should try these things in the gym and not out on the streets. I apologize for my glaring omission. :)
  7. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2014 11:50am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Awesome View Post
    Yes. I did not also realize I should have specified that you should try these things in the gym and not out on the streets. I apologize for my glaring omission. :)
    No problem, I should have made it clear that if I weren't willing to try new things I never would have crosstrained in grappling, and might still have an overblown belief in the stopping power of my front snap kick. ;^]
    Last edited by CapnMunchh; 1/08/2014 11:56am at .
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