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  1. #51
    Chili Pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    I am not interested in debating whether that technique is practical or not; I just state that the crescent kicks were (designed to be) used that way.
    Then why are you here? Bullshido is, y'know, focused on whether it's practical or not. There's a reason why the "Worst Technique You've Ever Been Taught" thread continues.

    Of course, you are free to ignore that and swing your legs in the air freely.
    The same goes for the other gentlemen who are evidently too clever to learn anything new.
    That's precious. I believe you're supposed to accuse us of being keyboard martial artists next.

  2. #52

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    I never use inside crescent kicks in sparring but occasionally will use an outside crescent from very close range. You need to have a lot of flexibility because it will have to come over your opponents shoulder and if you don't get it up you will get your leg stuck which is a very disadvantageous position if they move forward into you.

    Imagine the situation where you have come to within elbow and close punching range and you and your opponent are both standing with your right foot forward with feet almost right next to each other. This will happen a lot if your opponent throws a right jab and you slip left. By throwing a high outside crescent here the kick starts in an area where it is not immediately visible and if fast is a good first strike before coming back with a left punch or shooting to the legs.

    Its not a heavy shot but more of a stunner/setup to a combo. Most people expect you to be kicking toward their face so coming from behind like this is a bit unexpected IMO.

    zero

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    I am not interested in debating whether that technique is practical or not
    This thread has usefulness right in the title. If you don't want to talk about whether or not the kick is useful, then you're in the wrong thread.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    That is only the tip of iceberg as the discussion was about crescent kicks. But really, in karate kata and southern kungfu styles, majority of front and side kicks are done while grabbing the opponent.

    Of course, you are free to ignore that and swing your legs in the air freely.
    The same goes for the other gentlemen who are evidently too clever to learn anything new.
    I don't have any data to back it up, but I feel pretty safe saying that in most standup striking styles, immobilizing the opponent before a strike -- either kick or punch -- is advocated. That is why the non-striking hand is pulled to the waist in the straight punch seen in karate, probably the most common technique in Okinawan and Japanese striking systems.

    However, the stated issue here is usefulness, and that is considered in light of modern MMA style MA, in which the possibility of a takedown and grappling is understood. I don't believe that was always the case in all TMAs that relied primarily on striking. Seen that way, grabbing an attacker and delivering a low kick may be a useful technique, but using a high kick is definitely risky, given the possibility of a takedown (bad root), and the crescent kick is most often seen as a high kick.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    They are ideal for faking because of the way they take a curved track. The observer's brain essentially applies all processing power to tracking and predicting the path of the kick, and other movement, especially linear, is virtually invisible in the moment. It's one of many street magic tricks that translate well to fighting.
    Agree.

    There is also a variation of the inside kick where you turn the foot in and strike with the flat part of the foot, which can be very annoying (even if you only contact your opponent's arm) if you are wearing shoes with rubber soles.

    If you are fighting a beginner or a small child, you can pull their hands away with it and clear the way to their face.

    If you are fighting an advanced fighter who loves to follow your kicks back in and smother you, an inside kick followed immediately by a side kick (without putting the foot down) is a great way to get your opponent to run right into your foot. This is one of my personal favorites, because even if you don't connect with the side kick, your opponent will probably make an "oh crap!" face.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Awesome View Post
    Agree.

    There is also a variation of the inside kick where you turn the foot in and strike with the flat part of the foot, which can be very annoying (even if you only contact your opponent's arm) if you are wearing shoes with rubber soles.

    If you are fighting a beginner or a small child, you can pull their hands away with it and clear the way to their face.

    If you are fighting an advanced fighter who loves to follow your kicks back in and smother you, an inside kick followed immediately by a side kick (without putting the foot down) is a great way to get your opponent to run right into your foot. This is one of my personal favorites, because even if you don't connect with the side kick, your opponent will probably make an "oh crap!" face.
    Disagree.
    A double kick, in which the foot does not touch the ground again even for a quick bounce, may be great for point sparring, but the second kick will lack enough power to be used confidently as a combat technique because there's little or no hip or body pivot movement behind it. A lot of guys will just eat a kick like that and keep coming. See if you can find a video of a full contact match that was decided by the use of such a kick.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Disagree.
    A double kick, in which the foot does not touch the ground again even for a quick bounce, may be great for point sparring, but the second kick will lack enough power to be used confidently as a combat technique because there's little or no hip or body pivot movement behind it. A lot of guys will just eat a kick like that and keep coming. See if you can find a video of a full contact match that was decided by the use of such a kick.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    I don't have any data to back it up, but I feel pretty safe saying that in most standup striking styles, immobilizing the opponent before a strike -- either kick or punch -- is advocated. That is why the non-striking hand is pulled to the waist in the straight punch seen in karate, probably the most common technique in Okinawan and Japanese striking systems.
    I'm curious: what Karate syllabus states that grabbing/clinching a fully-resisting adversary is expected to render him motionless?

    My background includes a fair bit of Karate, and close'n'clinch is just the beginning of the fun: both adversaries will then be trying to gain positional advantage for strikes, for throws or for anything else that might be useful. Nobody's going to be "immobilized" simply by being grabbed.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    I'm curious: what Karate syllabus states that grabbing/clinching a fully-resisting adversary is expected to render him motionless?

    My background includes a fair bit of Karate, and close'n'clinch is just the beginning of the fun: both adversaries will then be trying to gain positional advantage for strikes, for throws or for anything else that might be useful. Nobody's going to be "immobilized" simply by being grabbed.
    Maybe immobilizing was not the best word to use. You're right, clinching is not going to make him stop moving altogether, but to the extent that you can slow down his movement you got a better target, and the impact of your strike will be stronger if you limit his movement and ability to absorb it. Isn't that why ground and pound works so well (aside from having gravity in your favor)?

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Maybe immobilizing was not the best word to use. You're right, clinching is not going to make him stop moving altogether, but to the extent that you can slow down his movement you got a better target, and the impact of your strike will be stronger if you limit his movement and ability to absorb it. Isn't that why ground and pound works so well (aside from having gravity in your favor)?
    If a knockout is your goal, then limiting to motion of your adversary's head is counterproductive. True, with good head-motion he can evade or slip your combinations, but it is also the rapid snapping motion of his head when you hit the sweet spot that rattles the brain. If you look at vids (especially slo-mo) of--for example--some of the more accomplished boxing KOs, the rapid 90-degree rotation of the head (in the case of, say, a nice hook to the jaw) is what puts the recipient to sleep. This rapid-displacement of the braincase--rather than just the impact by itself--causes the shock-reaction in the part of the brain that determines level of consciousness.

    Meanwhile, clinching the body can be useful--but it may be just as useful to your opponent, and getting the leg off the ground while in a clinch had better lead to something like a very fast osotogari, or you may well end up in considerable trouble.

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