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  1. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/15/2014 2:56am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    SWAT procedure: how to handle escaping hostages?

    I've been following the hostage situation in Australia with some interest and have been watching the CNN footage of several hostages escaping from the cafe:

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...scape.cnn.html

    I notice that when the hostages reach SWAT, they aren't searched or ziptied or at least not on camera or not immediately.

    I thought that standard procedure was that everyone gets searched and ziptied? Is it different for escaping hostages? What about the consideration that someone posing as an escaping hostage could be a suspect trying to get through the perimeter or something like that?

    Do they do things differently in Australia, or is my understanding of procedure incorrect?

    Thanks for any thoughts!
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
  2. dex is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2014 8:05am


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo

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    In NSW you have to fill in a thesis for using a taser. It's unlawful to restrain someone as described without a lawful reason such as arrest which requires certain elements to be deemed okay.

    This might be reasonable suspicion a crime may be committed by the arrested person or if they weren't arrested they would continue to offend etc etc etc see R v Aziz 2014 NSW for specifics on forming a reasonable suspicion.

    We seem to have a community policing thing happening despite what the police might actually want. The way people get manhandled etc on "cops" is always a suprise to me being Australian. There would be lawsuits everywhere if that was going on here.

    Procedurally with how our tactical unit works with cable ties I must say I am not sure. I could possibly find out. The new terrorism laws might invalidate everything I have said above which applies to most normal situations.


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  3. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/15/2014 4:47pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Quote Originally Posted by dex View Post
    In NSW you have to fill in a thesis for using a taser. It's unlawful to restrain someone as described without a lawful reason such as arrest which requires certain elements to be deemed okay.

    This might be reasonable suspicion a crime may be committed by the arrested person or if they weren't arrested they would continue to offend etc etc etc see R v Aziz 2014 NSW for specifics on forming a reasonable suspicion.

    We seem to have a community policing thing happening despite what the police might actually want. The way people get manhandled etc on "cops" is always a suprise to me being Australian. There would be lawsuits everywhere if that was going on here.

    Procedurally with how our tactical unit works with cable ties I must say I am not sure. I could possibly find out. The new terrorism laws might invalidate everything I have said above which applies to most normal situations.


    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app

    Thanks for your insights. Yeah, I think that on COPS the cops are on their best behavior too because they know it is on camera and being produced for TV. I have seen some cops in the UK via footage and I was surprised at how little they manhandled the suspects.


    Checking the news about a day later it sounds like there was just one perp with a shotgun and it sounded like he was basically tactically incompetent and delusional so there was no negative outcome to not searching and ziptying the escaping hostages in this instance.

    But considering the carnage that could be perpetrated by a suspect getting outside the perimeter with a concealed handgun, I am surprised what SWAT wouldn't err heavily on the side of caution.

    Thanks again for your thoughts!
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2015 7:22pm

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    It seems a terrorist escaped mixed with hostages after french LEO raided supermarket.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/09/wo...ect/index.html
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  5. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/12/2015 5:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    It seems a terrorist escaped mixed with hostages after french LEO raided supermarket.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/09/wo...ect/index.html
    I guess that's why per Daryl F. Gates' policy all civilians are ziptied and detained when SWAT are involved. Maybe in France they just don't do it but it let the one terrorist escape.
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
  6. tgace is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/12/2015 10:28am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    The latest info is that this female was not in the grocery store at all and actually left France days before the attacks. She's thought to be in Syria:

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=28133810

    In regards to SWAT SOP.

    "On Paper" you should grab and hold hostages. More for debrief/intel/paperwork (for possible prosecution of hostage taker)/etc than for making sure that they are not the bad guy.

    When in the middle of a big shitter though, sometimes "**** happens". You are also not going to prone out and cuff escaping hostages right there in front of the location either. Ideally you would be waving them through to a containment area where other cops would deal with them.

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