1. #1
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    I need help designing a basic bartitsu training program

    I recently received as a birthday gift both Bartitsu compendiums, and I was wondering if there is anyone here that could help me design a basic Bartitsu training program?

    Thanks
    Joseph

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    DdlR's Avatar
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    Yep ...

    Will you be training solo, with a partner or a group?

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    ORNYTHORINQUE!... BACHIBOUZOUK!!... BOIS-SANS-SOIF!!! supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph sandow View Post
    I recently received as a birthday gift both Bartitsu compendiums, and I was wondering if there is anyone here that could help me design a basic Bartitsu training program?

    Thanks
    Joseph
    That would be Ddlr. Listen to everything Ddlr says. Everyone else here will just be trolling.

    Bartitsu sucks.

  4. #4

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    I would like to see more discussion on this, I have thought about trying to get a bartitsu club going in my area before. Realistically though I would likely end up alone on this account with perhaps occasional access to a training partner. Any tips for a solo curriculum, I have both compendiums as well as quite a few of the republished pugilism manuals.

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    DdlR's Avatar
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    The best resource for doing this sort of thing is this Bartitsu.org article, but note that it assumes at least a small study group rather than literally solo training.

    With all the obvious caveats about prior relevant training experience, the inherent limitations of trying to learn any martial art (especially a grappling style) without a partner and having the necessary equipment on hand, I would recommend:

    1) Running through both "attacker" and "defender" actions of all the classic/"canonical" stick fighting set-plays recorded in Barton-Wright's "Self Defence with a Walking Stick" articles, effectively performing them as short kata. The set-plays are stylized and combine some high-percentage moves with some that are very low-percentage in terms of what can be proven via sparring, but taken as a whole they convey a lot of the basic tactics and body dynamics of Bartitsu stick fighting.

    2) Referring to volume 2 of the Bartitsu Compendium and/or to any good c1900 boxing manual, start hitting a medium/heavy bag, gradually combining low kicks in with the punches. Bear in mind that the object of the Bartitsu revival is largely to figure out how the cross-training style worked in its own historical context, so "form" is considered to be important.

    3) Start training cane strikes against the bag, again gradually blending in both punches and low kicks.

    This basic prescription notably leaves out the jiujitsu aspect, which is a crucially important part of the Bartitsu blend, but other than miming through the canonical kata and maybe teaching yourself to breakfall, I can't seriously imagine anyone learning much worth knowing about a grappling style without at least one training partner.

    Noting that Bartitsu as a whole really starts coming back to life when you combine the core methods together in spontaneous pressure testing, normally via semi-slow-motion "combat improv" as self defense training and then via hard sparring:




    Basically, the outcome should resemble Dog Brothers sparring as filtered through the "style points" suggested by the c1900 sources - high guards and certain specific tactics in stick fighting including a lot of ambidextrous stick play, erect or even slightly backward-leaning stances and "milling" of the fists in boxing, low-line and mostly linear kicks, jacketed submission grappling that echoes the pre-WW1 tradition.

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    Cool thanks for the tips. I can likely rustle up the occasional training partner, enough to practice the grappling aspects at least a couple of times a month, better than nothing I suppose.

    A question on the classical pugilism, how much rotation of the hips and shoulders are involved in the left lead? It seems like there is little if any, at least from reading Allison-Winn's Boxing. I have been working on my boxing here lately and have spent so much time working body rotation that I am finding it hard to lay off it when practicing the classical lead. Am I correct in my interpretation that most of the power on this punch is from springing with rear foot and leaning into the punch some?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkansan View Post
    Cool thanks for the tips. I can likely rustle up the occasional training partner, enough to practice the grappling aspects at least a couple of times a month, better than nothing I suppose.

    A question on the classical pugilism, how much rotation of the hips and shoulders are involved in the left lead? It seems like there is little if any, at least from reading Allison-Winn's Boxing. I have been working on my boxing here lately and have spent so much time working body rotation that I am finding it hard to lay off it when practicing the classical lead. Am I correct in my interpretation that most of the power on this punch is from springing with rear foot and leaning into the punch some?
    Much depends on the source - pugilists had their own "style preferences",etc. - but for Allanson-Winn's stuff, I'd say there's only as much rotation as may be required to achieve his "arch" on full extension of the left lead, depending on circumstantial factors of physique, measure etc.

    Also noting that, even if you only have one training partner, most of the Bartitsu.org article I linked to earlier will apply to you.

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    So, yeah, this thread's pretty old but it applies to me as well come to think of it. A while back I bought the Bartitsu Compendium, but realized I had ordered Volume II instead of volume I. At the moment I would also likely be training solo with maybe a couple of people who's interest I'll have to gauge.

    Either way, is there any advice worth getting for me that hasn't already been said in this?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gosai View Post
    So, yeah, this thread's pretty old but it applies to me as well come to think of it. A while back I bought the Bartitsu Compendium, but realized I had ordered Volume II instead of volume I. At the moment I would also likely be training solo with maybe a couple of people who's interest I'll have to gauge.

    Either way, is there any advice worth getting for me that hasn't already been said in this?
    The above advice pretty much covers it, though I'd recommend picking up Vol. 1 as well for context. A great deal depends on what you and/or your training partners have in terms of relevant backgrounds. Just noting again that the jujitsu element is important if your aim is really to get a handle on Bartitsu. IMO, it's also vital to build your training up into hard sparring, rather than just "going through the motions" of the old-school kata, etc.

    The Bartitsu revival is quite radically decentralized and "open source"; every club and study group is pretty much autonomous, but a lot of us share info., training tips etc. via the Bartitsu Forum email list, which is worth joining.

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