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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2013 6:35pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are they still instructors for Lloyd? The level of character development and maturity they showed is abysmal even if they were found not guilty of the charges.

    I don't care if she really did consent, what sort of....man....would even go there and then leave her laying on the pavement on a cold night, intoxicated or not?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2013 6:57pm


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Are they still instructors for Lloyd? The level of character development and maturity they showed is abysmal even if they were found not guilty of the charges.

    I don't care if she really did consent, what sort of....man....would even go there and then leave her laying on the pavement on a cold night, intoxicated or not?
    You'd think that Irvin would drop them just because of the negative publicity they bring him.
  3. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2013 7:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    You'd think that Irvin would drop them just because of the negative publicity they bring him.
    Guilty or not, I can't imagine that any young woman considering training in BJJ or MMA today would be comfortable in this organization.
  4. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 3:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The BJJ community needs to show the world that these rapists will not be allowed to compete or train.

    Though I support JNP's use of the word and I feel where it comes from, after reading Ta-Nehisi Coates on a separate issue I would not call Maldonado and Schultz monsters. That paints them as Evil, in that place where Evil People are. This is convincing to me and you, but it actually makes it harder for friends of these guys to accept the idea that Maldonado and Schultz did this terrible thing. From Ta-Nehisi:

    In modern America we believe [rape] to be the property of the uniquely villainous and morally deformed, the ideology of trolls, gorgons and orcs.
    It's not. That shifts the responsibility from Maldonado and Schultz's decisions to some inherent quality about their character. As heinous as their actions were, I don't think that's the best way to think about it. For one, it makes it harder to convince their buddies that these guys did something wrong and should be punished. For another, it suggests that they should be flogged with a firebrand daily and banned from the IBJJF forever and thrown in jail for the rest of their lives. I actually don't think that's right.

    They should be banned from jiujitsu competition...for ten years. (I could even be convinced of five.) If after those years they've admitted what they did, apologized to the victim, denounced Phil Proctor and the other pro-rape BJJ instructors, started a dozen fund drives for their local crime victim's assistance program, toured a few schools doing speeches in the way that drunk drivers who realize the magnitude of their errors do, and written a few op/ed blog posts about the dangers of rape culture and how everyone in BJJ can speak out against it when it comes up on the mats, then I say they should be let back into the community and allowed to compete.

    In other words, it's not an inherent quality of their being that caused these guys to do this. That worldview absolves them of personal responsibility, allows for no rehabilitation, and makes it hard for people who see good in Maldonado and Schultz to stand against them in this circumstance. They chose to rape their teammate, and they can choose to recognize their error, admit their egregious mistake, make amends, and help create a world where this kind of thing happens less.

    Until they do that, every single man and woman in BJJ, from white belt to red, should make it clear that they are not welcome. We can choose to do that.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  5. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 10:47am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    The BJJ community needs to show the world that these rapists will not be allowed to compete or train.

    Though I support JNP's use of the word and I feel where it comes from, after reading Ta-Nehisi Coates on a separate issue I would not call Maldonado and Schultz monsters. That paints them as Evil, in that place where Evil People are. This is convincing to me and you, but it actually makes it harder for friends of these guys to accept the idea that Maldonado and Schultz did this terrible thing. From Ta-Nehisi:



    It's not. That shifts the responsibility from Maldonado and Schultz's decisions to some inherent quality about their character. As heinous as their actions were, I don't think that's the best way to think about it. For one, it makes it harder to convince their buddies that these guys did something wrong and should be punished. For another, it suggests that they should be flogged with a firebrand daily and banned from the IBJJF forever and thrown in jail for the rest of their lives. I actually don't think that's right.

    They should be banned from jiujitsu competition...for ten years. (I could even be convinced of five.) If after those years they've admitted what they did, apologized to the victim, denounced Phil Proctor and the other pro-rape BJJ instructors, started a dozen fund drives for their local crime victim's assistance program, toured a few schools doing speeches in the way that drunk drivers who realize the magnitude of their errors do, and written a few op/ed blog posts about the dangers of rape culture and how everyone in BJJ can speak out against it when it comes up on the mats, then I say they should be let back into the community and allowed to compete.

    In other words, it's not an inherent quality of their being that caused these guys to do this. That worldview absolves them of personal responsibility, allows for no rehabilitation, and makes it hard for people who see good in Maldonado and Schultz to stand against them in this circumstance. They chose to rape their teammate, and they can choose to recognize their error, admit their egregious mistake, make amends, and help create a world where this kind of thing happens less.

    Until they do that, every single man and woman in BJJ, from white belt to red, should make it clear that they are not welcome. We can choose to do that.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you somewhere around 1000%. **** them, they do not deserve to ever have the right to step on any mat again. I seriously hope maggots eat their balls.
  6. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 12:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Guilty or not, I can't imagine that any young woman considering training in BJJ or MMA today would be comfortable in this organization.
    I dunno, lots of new students around here didn't really research their teacher before signing up.
  7. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 1:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I dunno, lots of new students around here didn't really research their teacher before signing up.
    I distinctly recall women winning medals under the TLI banner after this has all unfolded.
    Is there any truth to the assertion that Loyd paid for the Maldonado and Shultz defense?


    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I would not call Maldonado and Schultz monsters. That paints them as Evil, in that place where Evil People are. This is convincing to me and you, but it actually makes it harder for friends of these guys to accept the idea that Maldonado and Schultz did this terrible thing. From Ta-Nehisi:



    It's not. That shifts the responsibility from Maldonado and Schultz's decisions to some inherent quality about their character. As heinous as their actions were, I don't think that's the best way to think about it. For one, it makes it harder to convince their buddies that these guys did something wrong and should be punished.

    I think this is ridiculous.

    We still lock up the monsters, well, at least when things work out the way they're supposed to.
  8. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 1:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I dunno, lots of new students around here didn't really research their teacher before signing up.
    Hopefully any potential students will Google Team Lloyd Irvin and come across lloydirvinrapetruth.com and the writeup on bloodyelbow.com on the first results page. Tho the wikipedia article on Lloyd does not mention the rape trial.
  9. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 1:36pm


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Hopefully any potential students will Google Team Lloyd Irvin and come across lloydirvinrapetruth.com and the writeup on bloodyelbow.com on the first results page. Tho the wikipedia article on Lloyd does not mention the rape trial.
    It can if you put it in and cite sources.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2013 1:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Hopefully any potential students will Google Team Lloyd Irvin and come across lloydirvinrapetruth.com and the writeup on bloodyelbow.com on the first results page.
    Lloyd has made a big deal about how he's an SEO expert, which would presumably change the results, but there's a good chance that's just important-on-the-Internet talk.
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