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  1. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2013 5:01pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    Is it the jury's job to understand these ramifications? And do these ramifications have any bearing on the question of whether or not Maldonado's and Schultz's actions meet the legal definition of rape in Maryland?
    I did state in the beginning of my post that this was an op/ed piece. As I'm sure you will agree, my opinion has no bearing whatsoever in the Maryland judicial system.

    Additionally, I meant to post this in the forum for rough draft articles that is out of public sight. It was my first draft and was never meant to be posted for everyone to see it until the staff and other mods had a chance for input.

    I screwed up in this regard. C'est la vie.
  2. killface is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2013 9:26pm


     Style: BJJ

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At jnp:
    I am not well read on the topic but I think the article was written a bit too emotional. Calling them "monsters" (deserved or not) feels like a bit too much for me. Think about the points and facts you want bring across and concentrate on that.

    Adding more emotions to such an emotional debate might not be the best choice.
  3. Soldiermedic is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2013 10:48pm


     Style: bjj/judo

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by killface View Post
    At jnp:
    I am not well read on the topic but I think the article was written a bit too emotional. Calling them "monsters" (deserved or not) feels like a bit too much for me. Think about the points and facts you want bring across and concentrate on that.

    Adding more emotions to such an emotional debate might not be the best choice.
    They raped a drunk woman who trained with them and left her, unconscious and half naked, in a parking garage on NYE. Calling them monsters is not too much.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2013 11:31pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by killface View Post
    At jnp:
    I am not well read on the topic but I think the article was written a bit too emotional. Calling them "monsters" (deserved or not) feels like a bit too much for me. Think about the points and facts you want bring across and concentrate on that.

    Adding more emotions to such an emotional debate might not be the best choice.
    He used an American acronym that you probably missed. Articles can range from factual pieces to opinions and everything in-between. Op/Ed also known as opinion/editorial articles have a different range than what you described above. Nope, JNP is not lying, he is creating scenarios and examples conducive to his argument.
    I will tell you right now, the reader, that this is an opinion/editorial piece
    Yes, this means it can and will be emotional. The article types you are referring to would be different. For example, go read editorials on the Trayvon Martin case. Many of which focus on the emotions, fears and race while they slightly distort facts.

    One of the major distortions being "stand your ground" was not used as a defense. OP/ED pieces are allowed more leeway with their rhetoric than academic or news articles. That's why, in America at least, you will see papers have disclaimers after certain Op/Ed pieces.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 11/02/2013 11:41pm at .
  5. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2013 11:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by killface View Post
    At jnp:
    I am not well read on the topic but I think the article was written a bit too emotional. Calling them "monsters" (deserved or not) feels like a bit too much for me. Think about the points and facts you want bring across and concentrate on that.

    Adding more emotions to such an emotional debate might not be the best choice.
    At killface:

    **** you.


    Monster is too mild.
  6. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2013 9:49am


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    I don't know...as instructors they have a certain status within the group, which possibly gave them more opportunity to take advantage of this student (I.e., she was more likely to trust them initially, maybe?)...I think its a relevant point for discussion, even if it doesn't have the same legal meaning as when discussing minor students...
    JNP isn't just saying that their position as instructors makes the crime more heinous. He's saying that the jury's inability to understand the instructor/student relationship actually altered the outcome of the trial.
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    The justice system failed the plaintiff in a spectacular fashion because the jury did not understand the ramifications of these men's crime.
    And I don't think there's any reason to believe that's true.
  7. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2013 10:13am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    JNP isn't just saying that their position as instructors makes the crime more heinous. He's saying that the jury's inability to understand the instructor/student relationship actually altered the outcome of the trial.

    And I don't think there's any reason to believe that's true.
    While that appears to be true in the post, I would have changed the language in subsequent drafts to lessen that impression. I wrote the post when it was late, and I was tired. I try to get all my thoughts down, often in a crude and hasty fashion, in my first draft.

    The sentence would have been changed to something like, "Unless they trained combat arts as well, the jury could never know how much of an abuse of trust these two men committed because they were instructors at Lloyd Irvin's school."

    I'm not making excuses. I'm explaining that the article wasn't finished when I posted it.
  8. killface is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2013 11:16am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    He used an American acronym that you probably missed. Articles can range from factual pieces to opinions and everything in-between. Op/Ed also known as opinion/editorial articles have a different range than what you described above. Nope, JNP is not lying, he is creating scenarios and examples conducive to his argument.
    Yes, this means it can and will be emotional. The article types you are referring to would be different. For example, go read editorials on the Trayvon Martin case. Many of which focus on the emotions, fears and race while they slightly distort facts.

    One of the major distortions being "stand your ground" was not used as a defense. OP/ED pieces are allowed more leeway with their rhetoric than academic or news articles. That's why, in America at least, you will see papers have disclaimers after certain Op/Ed pieces.
    Thanks, this clears it up. I was indeed not familiar with that.

    Honestly, this style of writing still feels wrong for me considering the sensible and serious topic but that is just like my opinion.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2013 5:19pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by killface View Post
    Thanks, this clears it up. I was indeed not familiar with that.

    Honestly, this style of writing still feels wrong for me considering the sensible and serious topic but that is just like my opinion.
    Well, that's what makes writing unique. What you deem as feeling wrong, millions of people respect. Opinions, right and wrong, stimulate discussion or there would be no need for debates, discussion or conversations.
  10. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2013 5:31pm


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    While that appears to be true in the post, I would have changed the language in subsequent drafts to lessen that impression. I wrote the post when it was late, and I was tired. I try to get all my thoughts down, often in a crude and hasty fashion, in my first draft.

    The sentence would have been changed to something like, "Unless they trained combat arts as well, the jury could never know how much of an abuse of trust these two men committed because they were instructors at Lloyd Irvin's school."

    I'm not making excuses. I'm explaining that the article wasn't finished when I posted it.
    Cool, understood.
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