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  1. cualltaigh is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2013 10:07pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    ...must be overwhelmingly positive at all times and has little capacity for punishment.
    I've only been assisting with our kids class for a few months (so no really good anecdotes...yet) but the thing I struggle with most (apart from ensuring that I'm not giving my own kid preferential/extra attention) is gauging the capacity (if any) for disciplining children (whilst maintaining their interest/commitment) that aren't being co-operative. Especially when their parents are sitting 2m behind me watching very intently.

    Fortunately my coach sets a very good example and I haven't incurred the wrath of any tiger mums yet. But yeah, hats off to anyone that does this on a regular basis.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  2. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2013 10:18pm


     Style: aikido

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    I've only been assisting with our kids class for a few months (so no really good anecdotes...yet) but the thing I struggle with most (apart from ensuring that I'm not giving my own kid preferential/extra attention) is gauging the capacity (if any) for disciplining children (whilst maintaining their interest/commitment) that aren't being co-operative. Especially when their parents are sitting 2m behind me watching very intently.

    Fortunately my coach sets a very good example and I haven't incurred the wrath of any tiger mums yet. But yeah, hats off to anyone that does this on a regular basis.
    My old aikido club had kids' classes. They had some problems like these with parents, so they asked me (I have some background working with kids in camp and school settings) to outline a discipline policy. Once we had it all put together, we gave a copy to every parent. Now there is nothing to argue about: if a parent has a problem with his kid being taken off the mat, the instructor can just point to the page. Discussion over.
  3. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2013 11:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    My old aikido club had kids' classes. They had some problems like these with parents, so they asked me (I have some background working with kids in camp and school settings) to outline a discipline policy. Once we had it all put together, we gave a copy to every parent. Now there is nothing to argue about: if a parent has a problem with his kid being taken off the mat, the instructor can just point to the page. Discussion over.
    We had to do that with promotion policy as well. Same result more or less as yours. Now there is no arguing.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 9:01am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Another martial arts parent pet peeve: parents who get their kids into martial arts to develop discipline in them. Sure, martial arts can kinda do that, but that's a parent's job and a parent expecting others to do that for them sucks. Plus, they say discipline like its not a nebulous concept but is instead an absolute quality that exactly parallels the parent's definition. If your kid's a little **** who absolutely refuses to listen or chill, martial arts will not make them disciplined, especially when the average karate instructor for kids must be overwhelmingly positive at all times and has little capacity for punishment.
    this led to me removing the word "discipline" from our sign and ads.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  5. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 11:00am

    supporting member
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron View Post
    While I was training sport JJ, there was an older high ranking Judo coach that sometimes did our classes. He was pretty badass, universally respected and had great technique and teaching skills. However, his children were at home anywhere but the gym. The younger one was your typical noisy kid that couldn't concentrate on anything for more than few seconds.

    The real WTF was the older one. He was a few years younger than me, like begging high school at the time. A pretty cool guy outside the gym, that turned into a shapeless pile of goo on the mat. I swear that this kid went limp the moment you touched him. It was ridiculous. You couldn't even do normal positions with this guy, like holding him in your guard, because he was fucking limp all the time. He would just kinda fall over.

    Once in a blue moon, he would surprise me with an outburst of strength that made me remember he actually has functioning limbs, and then he would go limp again.

    Now, what the **** did his father think? He was there, he watched. I have no fucking idea.

    That kind of **** is even worse in striking arts. You won't just get bored to death, you get the **** beaten out of you.


    I've seen similar situations in my schools over the years. A bad-ass father browbeats his kid a bit too much, or somehow manages to convey extremely high expectations, and the kid rebels by being the opposite of what Dad wants, even if in fact the kid could do better.

    Ironic that parents sign their kids up for MA wanting the kids to develop confidence, discipline, etc., then proceed to act in a way that destroys the kid's self respect -- by screaming nonsense at tournaments, arguing with their teachers, berating them in front of others, and generally acting like the focus of the whole thing is the parent's/family reputation instead of the kid's welfare.

    Kids got enough pressure and things that they have to do, like do well in school and manage their social lives, without adding MA training to the pile of stress. MA training should be provided to kids, if they want it, how they want it, for as long as they want it, without any interference from parents other than occassional praise when they do well. It's for them. Doesn't matter if Dad is a fearsome black-belted master of whatever, if a kid would rather play Little League, he should be playing Little League.
  6. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 11:16am

    supporting member
     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With my kids the rule was that they had to get involved with some physical activity of their choosing. Also, once they started they had to stick with it for one year or season before choosing another activity if they decided they didn't like it.
  7. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 11:33am

    supporting member
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    With my kids the rule was that they had to get involved with some physical activity of their choosing. Also, once they started they had to stick with it for one year or season before choosing another activity if they decided they didn't like it.

    I agree that they should be taught to stick to some activity long enough to really give it a try, and that jumping from one to another too soon should be discouraged.

    Fortunately, I actually found that if I let my son and daughter pick the sports they wanted, they stuck to it on their own because they wanted to make it work for themselves. Never had a problem with them wanting to change sports too quickly except when I tried to get them involved in MA because I -- martial arts Dad -- thought it was a great idea. I signed my 12yr old daughter up for BJJ and she begged to quit after 3 months to play soccer. I agreed, and she stuck with soccer for 3 years. I signed my son up for TKD and he quit after 9 months to play roller hockey. He played roller hockey for 2 years, then ice hockey, then was on his HS hockey team for two years. After he graduated HS he took up BJJ on his own initiative, and now he's a blue belt.
  8. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 1:04pm


     Style: Kendo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    With my kids the rule was that they had to get involved with some physical activity of their choosing. Also, once they started they had to stick with it for one year or season before choosing another activity if they decided they didn't like it.
    Same rule here. Neither wanted to do kendo, but my son chose judo on his own which got me back on the mats.

    A lot of Japanese families put their kids into kendo for discipline and maintaining culture. Many of them loath it but the culture is you don't say no to the parents. They find it weird that there are people who are in kendo by choice rather than duty.
  9. csharp.negative is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 9:30pm


     Style: 1 technique 1000 times

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, concerning the noisy toddler: The only instance of this happening wound up with the toddler wanting so badly to do class with their older siblings, that they eventually started following the rules/doing the warm ups with us at 2.5-3 years old, when we take them at 5 or older. The mother was usually chasing after him all class and would have to leave because he was such a distraction. One day he just lined up with his brothers and the rest of the class and followed right along. The mom was floored.

    I have to mention the props that I give everyone for putting their kids into things they like rather than things you want them to do. I can't tell you what I've found more irritating than a kid putting pennies in their mouth during practice. No seriously; this kid had NO INTEREST IN BEING IN CLASS (though the parents refused to care less), so in his boredom he took some loose change from his pocket and started sucking on it. Had I not heard the mixed sound of "slurp" and "jingle jingle," he could've inhaled them and I would've had to perform the Heimlich for real. For the first time. Ever.

    On the flip side of that, we've also had kids LOVE our class whose parents convince the kid that they're soooo much better than everyone else, only to make the kid burn out of athletics completely. Forget boxing or wing chun or football, the kid can't take the pressure from their own mom and dad saying "you can beat them all, so we're going to make you go to class twice a day, even with the adults."
  10. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2013 9:44pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp.negative View Post
    Also, concerning the noisy toddler: The only instance of this happening wound up with the toddler wanting so badly to do class with their older siblings, that they eventually started following the rules/doing the warm ups with us at 2.5-3 years old, when we take them at 5 or older. The mother was usually chasing after him all class and would have to leave because he was such a distraction. One day he just lined up with his brothers and the rest of the class and followed right along. The mom was floored.

    I have to mention the props that I give everyone for putting their kids into things they like rather than things you want them to do. I can't tell you what I've found more irritating than a kid putting pennies in their mouth during practice. No seriously; this kid had NO INTEREST IN BEING IN CLASS (though the parents refused to care less), so in his boredom he took some loose change from his pocket and started sucking on it. Had I not heard the mixed sound of "slurp" and "jingle jingle," he could've inhaled them and I would've had to perform the Heimlich for real. For the first time. Ever.

    On the flip side of that, we've also had kids LOVE our class whose parents convince the kid that they're soooo much better than everyone else, only to make the kid burn out of athletics completely. Forget boxing or wing chun or football, the kid can't take the pressure from their own mom and dad saying "you can beat them all, so we're going to make you go to class twice a day, even with the adults."

    Good points. It can be a challenge to find the right balance between preventing your kid from being a lazy **** and making sure you aren't overly pushy. I don't know if I'm perfect at it but I honestly do give a **** about both of those things so I think that's step number one.

    The main ways I try to deal with that are 1. Constantly question myself to make sure my motivations for my actions are solid. 2. Make sure my kids understand my motivations for the things I encourage them to do and 3. Listen to them.

    There's no magic bullet and all kids are different. If I could accomplish one thing it would be to have them look back at these experiences with happiness instead of disgust when they're older. If I do that, I guess I will have done okay.
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