Grapplers are not fighters:
So I had this discussion with a student of mine awhile ago. She could not understand why I didn't consider Jiu Jitsu players fighters. At the time I did not have the right words. I simply told her that it is simply the same for Judo, Wrestlers, and other competitive grapplers. I just don't feel like they are fighters. Well I think I've found the right words.
When two "krotty" guys are point fighting I don't consider them fighters either. I don't consider Sumo fighters and I don't consider fencing fighting. Why? Because of the intention of the force they are using. In a fight the intention is try to hurt somebody and knock them out, send them to the hospital; not get points, not make somebody give up, not pin them.
So unless a Jiu Jitsu player wants to put the gloves on and go MMA then we can call him a Jiu Jitsu fighter. Of course there are other arguments which is why I wanted to open up this thread.
Despite being almost entirely a Judo guy, I agree. Whenever people around my clubs said "Judo fight" I cringed. On the other hand, approaching your grappling with the intensity of a fight is probably a must if you want to be a champion. And this fight vs grapple may be partially because of how specialized the rule sets of the sports are, rather than vale tudo or similar settings where jiu jitsu or judo (or wrestling, etc) might be used.
Originally Posted by Omega Supreme
Then they should take submissions out of MMA?
You can win a boxing match via submission too.
Originally Posted by Charles Brown
Agreed. I hate hearing BJJ guys refer to a match at a grappling tournament as a fight.
To me: Boxing match. Kickboxing match. Judo match. Jiu Jistu match. MMA FIGHT! *justbleedguy.gif*
You can actually win via knockout in Sumo, being that full-contact palm strikes are allowed to the face. The ultimate criteria used to determine a winner, however, is which wrestler touches the ground or is pushed out of the ring first, so I guess you could argue causing unconsciousness is a means to an end rather than the end itself in the case of Sumo.
Yeah, that would be my argument.
Originally Posted by Holy Moment
If the criteria is the intent to cause harm (rather than just point fighting, pins, or form competitions) wouldn't boxing and kickboxing still be considered fights? They use a more limited rule set than MMA...is that another consideration?
Originally Posted by Krijgsman
This. While I've never heard a wrestler refer to a wrestling match as a fight, I've heard more than a few BJJ guys say they were "fighting this weekend" when talking about attending a grappling tournament.
Originally Posted by Devil
You are not fighting. You are hugging each other vigorously.