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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 2:55pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Grapplers are not fighters:

    So I had this discussion with a student of mine awhile ago. She could not understand why I didn't consider Jiu Jitsu players fighters. At the time I did not have the right words. I simply told her that it is simply the same for Judo, Wrestlers, and other competitive grapplers. I just don't feel like they are fighters. Well I think I've found the right words.

    When two "krotty" guys are point fighting I don't consider them fighters either. I don't consider Sumo fighters and I don't consider fencing fighting. Why? Because of the intention of the force they are using. In a fight the intention is try to hurt somebody and knock them out, send them to the hospital; not get points, not make somebody give up, not pin them.

    So unless a Jiu Jitsu player wants to put the gloves on and go MMA then we can call him a Jiu Jitsu fighter. Of course there are other arguments which is why I wanted to open up this thread.
  2. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:01pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Despite being almost entirely a Judo guy, I agree. Whenever people around my clubs said "Judo fight" I cringed. On the other hand, approaching your grappling with the intensity of a fight is probably a must if you want to be a champion. And this fight vs grapple may be partially because of how specialized the rule sets of the sports are, rather than vale tudo or similar settings where jiu jitsu or judo (or wrestling, etc) might be used.
  3. Charles Brown is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:03pm

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     Style: DT Instructor

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    So I had this discussion with a student of mine awhile ago. She could not understand why I didn't consider Jiu Jitsu players fighters. At the time I did not have the right words. I simply told her that it is simply the same for Judo, Wrestlers, and other competitive grapplers. I just don't feel like they are fighters. Well I think I've found the right words.

    When two "krotty" guys are point fighting I don't consider them fighters either. I don't consider Sumo fighters and I don't consider fencing fighting. Why? Because of the intention of the force they are using. In a fight the intention is try to hurt somebody and knock them out, send them to the hospital; not get points, not make somebody give up, not pin them.

    So unless a Jiu Jitsu player wants to put the gloves on and go MMA then we can call him a Jiu Jitsu fighter. Of course there are other arguments which is why I wanted to open up this thread.

    Then they should take submissions out of MMA?
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:10pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Brown View Post
    Then they should take submissions out of MMA?
    You can win a boxing match via submission too.
  5. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:22pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreed. I hate hearing BJJ guys refer to a match at a grappling tournament as a fight.
  6. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:26pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To me: Boxing match. Kickboxing match. Judo match. Jiu Jistu match. MMA FIGHT! *justbleedguy.gif*
  7. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:30pm

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     Style: Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can actually win via knockout in Sumo, being that full-contact palm strikes are allowed to the face. The ultimate criteria used to determine a winner, however, is which wrestler touches the ground or is pushed out of the ring first, so I guess you could argue causing unconsciousness is a means to an end rather than the end itself in the case of Sumo.

  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 3:42pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    You can actually win via knockout in Sumo, being that full-contact palm strikes are allowed to the face. The ultimate criteria used to determine a winner, however, is which wrestler touches the ground or is pushed out of the ring first, so I guess you could argue causing unconsciousness is a means to an end rather than the end itself in the case of Sumo.

    Yeah, that would be my argument.
  9. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 4:33pm


     Style: Wrestle, Kickbox, Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    To me: Boxing match. Kickboxing match. Judo match. Jiu Jistu match. MMA FIGHT! *justbleedguy.gif*
    If the criteria is the intent to cause harm (rather than just point fighting, pins, or form competitions) wouldn't boxing and kickboxing still be considered fights? They use a more limited rule set than MMA...is that another consideration?
  10. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 5:43pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Agreed. I hate hearing BJJ guys refer to a match at a grappling tournament as a fight.
    This. While I've never heard a wrestler refer to a wrestling match as a fight, I've heard more than a few BJJ guys say they were "fighting this weekend" when talking about attending a grappling tournament.

    You are not fighting. You are hugging each other vigorously.
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