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  1. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 5:03pm

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     Style: Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!




  2. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 5:09pm


     Style: HS Cuddling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I agree with you Cuddles, but your ideas aren't new. Interestingly, when I started posting here way back when there seemed to be a lot more people here who shared that line of thinking. It was one of the things that I liked about the site. Now, it seems like there are more of the "It's all good. Let's play nice and respect each other's training" crowd here.

    Come to the Krav Maga thread.
    Fair enough, I just haven't seen those types of posts around, so I'm unaware. All I've seen is, "If it's alive, it's good", which I don't agree with.

    Maybe better than a dead martial art, but that's about it.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 6:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Now, it seems like there are more of the "It's all good. Let's play nice and respect each other's training" crowd here.
    No, all of the people got tired including you. That Krav thread and one other are the first time, in YEARS, you've actually argued against the "larp." Look at DKjr, that's pretty much the sentiment of the main posters.


    The mantra also shifted to, "train what you like, just don't come here and brag about the greatness of your art."
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 6:10pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    Fair enough, I just haven't seen those types of posts around, so I'm unaware. All I've seen is, "If it's alive, it's good", which I don't agree with.

    Maybe better than a dead martial art, but that's about it.
    LOL. They are all over this website. Things change, just like the comment "lurk more, post less" that used to be the norm. About one and a half years ago your post would have been retitled, laughed at, dumped in trollshido, dead horse memes would have been posted, links to the very same opinion would have been provided and Sirc would have called you the "N-word."
  5. JingMerchant! is offline
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    ...has all your Jing.

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 6:22pm


     Style: Judo, baby! Yeah!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    LOL. They are all over this website. Things change, just like the comment "lurk more, post less" that used to be the norm. About one and a half years ago your post would have been retitled, laughed at, dumped in trollshido, dead horse memes would have been posted, links to the very same opinion would have been provided and Sirc would have called you the "N-word."
    Quoted for painful, but hilarious truth.
    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
    And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!
  6. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 7:11pm


     Style: aikido

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    The mantra also shifted to, "train what you like, just don't come here and brag about the greatness of your art."
    Something I, as an aikido guy, am very grateful for.
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 8:28pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    ...and just training with aliveness doesn't cut it.

    I know a lot of you will argue that as long as a style trains with aliveness, it'll become a perfectly good/valid form of fighting.

    However, I think that even with alive training, there are some styles that are bad.

    But let me define what I assume as a "bad" style:
    Any style that does not allow you to (restricts you from) fight to the best of your abilities in whatever situation you're training for (i.e. Stand-up, Clinch, Grappling)

    Why is this so?

    Because, in my humble opinion, once a "bad" style starts being pressure tested, it looks a lot less like itself and a lot more like a tried-and-true style such as Kickboxing, Muay Thai, or the various forms of grappling. Thus, the style itself disappears.

    In this way, a good style is the style that does not need to change how it fights in order to fight more effectively.

    A great example is Karate. I doubt any of you would argue that traditional Karate does not teach to fight with one's side facing one's opponent. Thus, if restricted to fighting with one's side facing one's opponent, the Karate user will be at a severe disadvantage when compared to another style that squares up, such as Muay Thai.

    And under pressure testing, the Karate starts looking less and less like Karate and more and more like Kickboxing. Kyoukushin Karate is the perfect example of this, where you see kickboxers in karate uniforms beating each other up under slightly modified kickboxing rules and calling it "Karate". This is completely different from the traditional idea of "Karate" users "killing" each other with "one punch, one kill".

    Thus, I would argue that KK Karate isn't really Karate at all, just an entirely new style of fighting that likes to be called "Karate". (since I'm sure that you can call a style whatever you want it to. Hence Purple Dragon, Systema, Yellow Bamboo, etc)

    Now, I'm not saying that a traditional Karate user can't beat a Muay Thai fighter; it certainly is possible. However, the Karate user will be at a clear disadvantage if he chooses to fight facing the side. Or in an exaggeratedly low, squared stance. Or with one hand up and one hand hugging the belly.

    TL;DR - A style is bad when it puts its user at a disadvantage and must in essence change itself to something "new" in order to fight in a competitive, full-contact engagement.

    And, imo, even Omega isn't an exception to this. (I HAVE to bring this up, since I know he'll call me a dumbass and say he eats souls CMA)

    Yes, he fights well. Yes he can kick my ass with Traditional CMA. But in order to fight to the best of his abilities (i.e. competitively), he must use something closer to a MMA/Kickboxing stance instead of the "cat stance" or "horse stance" that most are taught to fight in. Meaning that he's not using just that style anymore. And if you mix styles, you come up with MMA or some mixed crossbreed like Shoto-Ryu-jitsu-nin-do Karate. Which means that the style of fighting is "bad".


    Younger generations and their pesky new ideas.

    Ah my naive friend, if I had the time and energy I would so dismantle everything you just said. Let me just leave this anecdote right here:

    My first student I ever taught visited me 2 years ago. He was impressed on how far I went from training in the park to a gym over 5000sq ft (I've actually doubled my size since then).

    After some catching up he mused to me, him being in the military these days "I keep telling the guys I train with that this MMA is nothing new. We used to train like this before anybody heard of the UFC."

    "Yeah, story of my life Kevin", I replied.

    Just saying.
  8. Krijgsman is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 9:01pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would actually argue that, since styles like Karate or Kung Fu were once used in actual full contact fighting, they probably resembled kickboxing back in the day anyway. I mean, how often is Karate linked to Kung Fu, linked to some obscure Indian monk who knew how to kickbox? The lineages might be bullshit, but the point is what works, works.

    Its the straying away from full contact to point sparring etc that has lead to full use of side-on stances and the like. Because arts adapt to the their rule sets. Pre-modern (Queensberry rules) boxing looked an awful lot like shootboxing - takedowns, etc.

    There is nothing new under the sun. And when it comes to fighting that is because the human body moves in the same patterns (give or take) no matter if you are a 15th century Japanese Samurai or 4th century BC Spartan or a modern MMA fighter. Heel hooks are heel hooks. A wrist lock/kimura/udegarame/etc is what it is. Aliveness and pressure testing tends to filter out the bullshit - which is why everything starts looking similar.

    I am getting even myself off track at this point. *beatingdeadhorse.gif*
  9. bombom is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 10:02pm


     Style: Getting less fat

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread makes me think of how much of an asshole I am. I mother fucking hate da chun. It looks stupid and it sucks. Sure, there are some chunners that can rock, but when they spar, they look like kick-boxers. Plenty of chunny chun chunnery before the live sparring, but then, kick-boxing.

    But, when I trained at karate, pretty much the same thing. Katas and related krotty stuff. But, when it came time to spar, more like kick-boxing. So, I have to admit I'm a jerk for hating chun.

    Still not going to stop hating chun though. Too fucking stupid looking.
  10. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2013 10:18pm


     Style: HS Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Ah my naive friend, if I had the time and energy I would so dismantle everything you just said. Let me just leave this anecdote right here:
    Woohoo! I'm friend, not food

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