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  1. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 4:15pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    how to make people understand the importance of rolling

    so I am the bjj/wrestling instructor of a college mma club, we spend about 45 minutes demonstrating striking technique then ~45min demonstrating grappling. then we let them spar/roll for the remainder of the time we have which is about 30min sometimes more sometimes less. when we let them go, pretty much everyone goes to strike, and usually only 2 or 3 pairs are allowed to strike at a time so most people just sit around and watch and wait their turn. almost no one rolls, we could have them all rolling at once if they chose to but only 4-5 people ever actually do. This is starting to seriously bother me, I don't really know how to express to them that they NEED to roll if they want to learn, and that the ground is a significant part of mma, which they will never understand or get any better at if they never do it, and if you can't grapple your not going to be striking for very long. So does anyone have any ideas of how I can encourage them to invest a portion of their time in rolling?
    Thanks
  2. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 4:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak View Post
    so I am the bjj/wrestling instructor of a college mma club, we spend about 45 minutes demonstrating striking technique then ~45min demonstrating grappling.
    then we let them spar/roll for the remainder of the time we have which is about 30min sometimes more sometimes less. when we let them go, pretty much everyone goes to strike, and usually only 2 or 3 pairs are allowed to strike at a time so most people just sit around and watch and wait their turn. almost no one rolls, we could have them all rolling at once if they chose to but only 4-5 people ever actually do. This is starting to seriously bother me, I don't really know how to express to them that they NEED to roll if they want to learn, and that the ground is a significant part of mma, which they will never understand or get any better at if they never do it, and if you can't grapple your not going to be striking for very long. So does anyone have any ideas of how I can encourage them to invest a portion of their time in rolling?
    Thanks
    You are the coach. Tell them what to do. Make them all roll and all strike in whatever proportion you think is best for their development.

    I'm assuming you do some sort of drilling on the striking and grappling, not just demos in which they watch and don't practice?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 4:41pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    im the grappling coach, there are other coaches, the head coach prefers to just let everyone divide up their time as they see fit, the other coaches are however all primarily strikers. I'm not the head coach, but I'll tell them they need to spend more time with it, not confident they'll do it though.

    we do drill once a technique has been shown, but thats also irritating as with the grappling they'll usually do it 2 or 3 times then sit and watch, and I have told them to keep working on it, and walk around and tell them to keep working it when theyve stopped but lots of them will just do it til ive gotten about 15 feet away and stop again. I've kept telling them 2 or 3 times is not enough and they're getting better at that but thats still a problem as well
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 5:22pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak View Post
    im the grappling coach, there are other coaches, the head coach prefers to just let everyone divide up their time as they see fit, the other coaches are however all primarily strikers. I'm not the head coach, but I'll tell them they need to spend more time with it, not confident they'll do it though.

    we do drill once a technique has been shown, but thats also irritating as with the grappling they'll usually do it 2 or 3 times then sit and watch, and I have told them to keep working on it, and walk around and tell them to keep working it when theyve stopped but lots of them will just do it til ive gotten about 15 feet away and stop again. I've kept telling them 2 or 3 times is not enough and they're getting better at that but thats still a problem as well
    That's a tough situation to be in. Have you tried coming up with an overall training plan
    that coordinates with the other coaches? That way if all the coaches present the "plan" to the class, it will reinforce the need to do the grappling drills as well as the striking.

    If you are in a "club sport" type setting (I ran a Judo program for several years at a major university), then your "power" to keep people moving may be limited. Recreational athletes in college (if that is what your are dealing with) tend not to be the most motivated, serious students. I would start out with 40-50 students at the beginning of the fall semester, and end up with 10-12 in less than a month.

    So, coordinate with the other coaches. Get the head coach to speak to the whole class about the importance of drilling the demonstrated techniques/sequences.

    Other than that, you should examine how you teach, especially relative to the goals/ambitions of the students. When I started out, I was still a seriously competitive athlete. That colored my attitude towards training (it still does, LOL!). So I didn't have much use for guys who wanted to hang out and socialize, or be lazy in general.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 5:57pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    these are definitely "recreational" students, very few have done anything before and I've defnitely got a different level of expectations then most of them have, I'm bringing it down but yeah... its definitely coloring my view of the situation, starting to come to terms with that, but still I think they should be rolling at least somewhat.

    we really should try to coordinate and come up with a plan, thats a good idea, and having the message coming from the others would definitely be stronger than me as the grappling coach saying "hey you all need to do more of my ****"
  6. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 6:07pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tell them the amount of reps you want them to do. So, after you show the grappling move, tell them to drill it ten times on each side. Then other partner. During free sparring, set them in situations. E.g. One guy starts in mount, start the spar there. Or on back control. Or since this is MMA, One guy on the wall, other guy works for takedown.

    A comment;

    I don't like teaching beginners 'MMA' -they don't have anything to 'mix' yet. Get them proficient in one skill set first (striking or grappling). No one is going to shoot in for a takedown they've barely tried if their sparring partner -who is also brand new and thus dangerous because of lack of control - can hit them in the face. Separate the sparring so that they can become comfortable with trying techniques on the ground -if the punishment is a bad position AND punches to the face, people are unwilling to try out new things. So, teach them grappling and teach them striking separately and make them spar separately. Only later, once they are comfortable and have some movements in both should they combine their skills during a spar.
    (I don't mean, don't drill specific mma techniques, you could always drill them to do punches to the face to takedown etc, thats fine.)

    This will also let them compete in tournaments more often -just grappling tournaments or just boxing matches for example, and train the competition anxiety that way.
  7. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 6:45pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilis View Post
    Tell them the amount of reps you want them to do. So, after you show the grappling move, tell them to drill it ten times on each side. Then other partner. During free sparring, set them in situations. E.g. One guy starts in mount, start the spar there. Or on back control. Or since this is MMA, One guy on the wall, other guy works for takedown.
    This is a good idea, I'm going to try this

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilis View Post

    I don't like teaching beginners 'MMA' -they don't have anything to 'mix' yet. Get them proficient in one skill set first (striking or grappling). No one is going to shoot in for a takedown they've barely tried if their sparring partner -who is also brand new and thus dangerous because of lack of control - can hit them in the face. Separate the sparring so that they can become comfortable with trying techniques on the ground -if the punishment is a bad position AND punches to the face, people are unwilling to try out new things. So, teach them grappling and teach them striking separately and make them spar separately. Only later, once they are comfortable and have some movements in both should they combine their skills during a spar.
    (I don't mean, don't drill specific mma techniques, you could always drill them to do punches to the face to takedown etc, thats fine.)

    This will also let them compete in tournaments more often -just grappling tournaments or just boxing matches for example, and train the competition anxiety that way.
    I agree, and that's essentially what were doing when they spar they are either striking or rolling, but the result is no one is ever rolling, we've set up an in house grappling tournament, but this hasn't seemed to provide a whole lot of motivation. Even while they spar 90% of them will throw one jab and everything else after it is a haymaker, I'd have liked to just make them wrestle for a few weeks then get them working their standing and ground skills seperately then only towards the end of the year or if they have a certain level of proficiency let them go. but we are where we are, and wrestling almost literally draws groans.
  8. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 10:33pm

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because wrestling is harder physically and they are being soft cocks.

    If they won't roll gauntlet the **** out of them.

    Otherwise you could give advantage to wrestling. During sparring a guy gets subbed he does 30 sprawls. Technically you have lost.

    Other guy rests. You want to rest knock the guy down and sub him.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 10/02/2013 10:36pm at .
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  9. cualltaigh is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 10:51pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Introduce a simple new rule:

    If you're not striking at the time you're rolling. 1000 burpees after sparring for anyone caught napping.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  10. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2013 11:10pm

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And directly pair them up cut off peoples options to slack.

    Also with the groaning, it is bad form. You want these guys to want to exel for that they need to inspire the rest of the team with their own work rate.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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