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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 1:35pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Okay, so wealth-distribution schemes won't stop societies from collapsing, since virtually every past society has collapsed. Once the collapse occurs, inequalities continue to exist, if perhaps in different forms.
    How about in effort to slow the collapse.

    using the numbers from
    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/..._spending.html

    Here lets look at some numbers to express the problem. In a 100% completely fair (yeah I know I just used the F word) society everyone would pay an equal amount in taxes to the government.

    Looking at just the taxation for the federal government not even getting into sales tax or property tax or any of the other taxes that pay for local and state government.

    For every single Man Woman and Child the US government spends 11,820.7
    Of that only $330.0 goes to Family and children AKA Welfare/food stamps ect.
    and another $166.7 goes to housing assistance.
    and another 1,269.5 goes to health care for welfare.

    So even if you cut the 1765 of "social spending" your still left with a tax bill of 10055 per person that is per every single person in the US. Adult or Child.

    The federal minimum wage is $7.25 at 40/wk that is a partly 15,080 a year.
    Their is no human way that someone at minimum wage can afford to pay their own pay let alone that of their childs as well.
    Hell lets take a family of 4 that has 2 working adults that both make $20/hr
    That is only $83,000 a year. Their tax burden would be w/o social spending still a whopping 40,000 a year almost 1/2 of what they make. I will tell you what the squeeze on jobs that pay between 40-60k a year has been huge. Its getting harder and harder to find work in that range. You either have a real professional level job where you can make ok money or your stuck at a real **** level of pay.

    This is not sustainable. Especially when 99% of the people only have access to 1/2 the wealth. W/O taxes governments fail societies fail. People without money means no taxes.

    Ok so lets see if redistribution helps at all.
    As we saw earlier in the thread Blue State which tend to have more programs that redistribute wealth are on the top of the list of states that pay more money out to federal tax dollars then they get back in. We also see that they have much stronger middle classes than red states. One more thing they also tend to have much more wealthy people in them as well.
    So that sort of governance appears to be more sustainable. So maybe just maybe it will slow the decline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Given the cost and bureaucracy related to wealth-distribution schemes, and given that they won't stop the whole rise-and-fall thing from continuing to occur as it always has, what purpose do such schemes serve? Do they trigger altruism-related endorphins in the brains of their advocates? Is there a "social-conscience high" to be had?
    The cost is actually very small especially in context. Hell maybe with just the right balance of allowing people to be successful, giving people a safety net, and not allowing people to hoard vast amounts of wealth we can find a society that will pursiver.
  2. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 2:22pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    China?
    You stole my response.
  3. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 2:31pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Please provide some examples of mega corporations that earn a significant portion of their revenue by selling useless ****. And I don't mean one or two shitty product lines in a sea of more useful product lines.
    Since China was taken, how about Apple??
  4. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:06pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    This will only happen if those broke people stop buying useless ****. I have yet to see that happen. The real issue isn't the useless ****, it is the idiots that live WAAAAAAAAYYYY above their means. I know too many middle class poor people who carry more debt per year, than they make in a year.
    It hasn't happened yet, but I think eventually it will reach a tipping point. Creditors are currently more than happy to hand someone a shovel to dig a hole they hope to keep that person in for life. But they want people in debt AND paying, with a lack of employment people end up defaulting and that's a no win for the creditors. Add enough unemployment and you will reach a point where the cash flow becomes stagnant. Of course I guess the businesses can still just wait for ole Uncle Sam to bail them out. Too bad he won't bail out the public from their massive debt, which would probably cost about the same.
  5. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    Since China was taken, how about Apple??
    Really? That's your final answer? Apple? Are we talking about the same Apple? The one that sells computers? Or is there some other Apple I'm not aware of? Telephones and computers. Sure, they're completely useless.

    Also, please tell me - this China, Inc. you speak of.....Is that listed on the NASDAQ or NYSE? What's their ticker symbol?
  6. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:45pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Really? That's your final answer? Apple? Are we talking about the same Apple? The one that sells computers? Or is there some other Apple I'm not aware of? Telephones and computers. Sure, they're completely useless.

    Also, please tell me - this China, Inc. you speak of.....Is that listed on the NASDAQ or NYSE? What's their ticker symbol?
    China I'm pretty sure was mentioned as a joke, I would think someone as sarcastic as you would pick up on that.

    Please tell me what it is that Apple makes that isn't an over-glorified toy?? Which of their 500$ phones or heavily overpriced computers are listed as a necessity??
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:45pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    It hasn't happened yet, but I think eventually it will reach a tipping point. Creditors are currently more than happy to hand someone a shovel to dig a hole they hope to keep that person in for life. But they want people in debt AND paying, with a lack of employment people end up defaulting and that's a no win for the creditors. Add enough unemployment and you will reach a point where the cash flow becomes stagnant. Of course I guess the businesses can still just wait for ole Uncle Sam to bail them out. Too bad he won't bail out the public from their massive debt, which would probably cost about the same.
    lol I love idiots talking like they understand the system when they don't.

    Guess what our country is going through RIGHT now. Thats right the results of a housing bubble that popped leaving the people with 1 trillion dollars of unsecured debt that was largely walked away from. Guess what happens when an upside down house is foreclosed on. The bank eats it. Thats right the lender. The lender is the one that gets fucked. Not the borrower the brower can borrow money again after 7 years.

    Lets take a look at what happens to a dead beat borrower.


    Oh thats right nearly nothing. You get some calls from creditors, you can't get any new lines of credit and renting a place becomes hard.

    Other then that its a whole lot of nothing.

    I am sick of ass holes like you trying to demonise corporations. They are AMORAL not evil. They have a fucking job to do and guess what they do it well.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:47pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh and one more fucking thing while we are at it. I am sick and tired of hearing about Government bail outs. Hey guess what ass hole the TARP fund was a loan and one that is almost already been paid back in FULL. So go **** yourselves you ignorant fucks talking about **** that you know nothing about other than some talking head bullshit.
  9. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:48pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    lol I love idiots talking like they understand the system when they don't.

    Guess what our country is going through RIGHT now. Thats right the results of a housing bubble that popped leaving the people with 1 trillion dollars of unsecured debt that was largely walked away from. Guess what happens when an upside down house is foreclosed on. The bank eats it. Thats right the lender. The lender is the one that gets fucked. Not the borrower the brower can borrow money again after 7 years.

    Lets take a look at what happens to a dead beat borrower.


    Oh thats right nearly nothing. You get some calls from creditors, you can't get any new lines of credit and renting a place becomes hard.

    Other then that its a whole lot of nothing.

    I am sick of ass holes like you trying to demonise corporations. They are AMORAL not evil. They have a fucking job to do and guess what they do it well.
    No they do not "do it well" they do it by fixing the fucking system in their favor and by bending or outright ignoring the rules and regulations. No one forced the lenders to give out bad loans to deadbeats THEY FUCKING KNEW IN ADVANCE would not be able to pay for the 2000% interest loans they gave.
  10. Bneterasedmynam is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2013 3:54pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Oh and one more fucking thing while we are at it. I am sick and tired of hearing about Government bail outs. Hey guess what ass hole the TARP fund was a loan and one that is almost already been paid back in FULL. So go **** yourselves you ignorant fucks talking about **** that you know nothing about other than some talking head bullshit.
    You know what though in a true capitalist system there are no bailouts. Companies who **** up that badly should go out of business, there is no lesson learned from bailing their useless asses out. None, zero, ziltch. Who bails the rest of us out if we **** up?? And don't fucking say bankruptcy because unlike companies we don't get to keep our money and bonuses with our "bailout" option. Oh and let's hear your excuse for bailout money that went to bonuses for CEOs and fucking parties.

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