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  1. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 6:27pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    See, that's the scam. You've been taught the scare tactics of insurance companies. It is like car insurance. We pay for the shitty drivers, not the responsible ones. I think health insurance is necessary, but he is right in his poorly worded fashion.

    My company foots my bill very well, but if you look at the out of pocket cost to spending ratio, the insurance company makes about $10,000 off my policy. Basically, we pay for the fear of what MIGHT happen, not for the years we are healthy.

    You went worse case scenario.
    oh yeah im not saying insurance companies arent full of ****. i mean its a non issue where i am anyway because the minute you set foot on NZ dirt you are insured. the cost is absorbed into our tax rates. its a similar system to Britain. The only reason I have health insurance is because it gets me cheaper deals on dentist and optometrist work (i have **** english teeth and **** nerdy eyes) and because i have a history of bowel cancer, so if something does go south (hurr hurr) i get top shelf treatment instead of public hospital.

    i went worse case scenario because thats kind of the point of health insurance isnt it? you dont get it in case you stub your toe or get a cold.
  2. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 6:42pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    That's already being said. Hell, it' been said for damn near thirty plus years. You are raising the limit for actual employed people, not the "welfare freeloaders." It is the argument the politicians already make about the welfare system, too many freeloaders. Someone making a combined $55,000 qualifies to have help. Also, contrary to stupidity all "medical welfare" is not free it is a graduated pay system.
    I know...honestly I think they folded way too easily on this point seeing as they were going to get hammered on it regardless.

    Too an extent, though, it doesn't matter if its a misinterpretation or not...nobody has the political will to vote for something that could get thrown back at them as "added 10 million more to the welfare rolls" or something to that effect...people just read the bumper stickers, they don't seem to have the attention span for a real explanation...

    Sent from my Droid using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:06pm

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    Really? DHS. No, they don't care if it gets thrown back at them at all. America is all about creating more bureaucratic mess than fixing a problem. There is a broken system in place that cost billions, fix that. Instead, lets create an entirely NEW system of healthcare that runs CONCURRENTLY with the broken system. While we are at it, let's shut the government down as well. That way, we go further and further in debt, but they can say "see what we did!!!!"

    I love where I live, but I am constantly reminded why I hate our stupidity.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    i went worse case scenario because thats kind of the point of health insurance isnt it? you dont get it in case you stub your toe or get a cold.
    For me it was always preventative care not major catastrophes. So, no, I never looked at it that way, but I understand your feeling.
  5. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    For me it was always preventative care not major catastrophes. So, no, I never looked at it that way, but I understand your feeling.
    fair enough. like i said ive lived my entire life in a system where your healthcare is paid for so the only real reason to get insurance is in case of something big where you dont want to go through public health.
  6. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    But I can think of no other president who has been elected, for whom the opposition party has immediately declared him illegitimate for reasons having more to do with fantasy rather than his conduct. (Obama is a Muslim, born in Kenya, who really is a citizen of Indonesia blah, blah, blah)
    Obama is no more subject to muck raking than any other President. The reasoning people use to justify their hatred is a mix of bullshit and truth, like always. The reason his haters used the Muslim, Kenya things and soforth is because those were the weapons they felt were available. His opponents used what was available just like George W. Bush's opponents used what was available.

    You don't really think there's a moral line that Democrats refuse to cross when it comes to bashing a Republican, do you? Hell no, there isn't. So Obama shouldn't be viewed as somebody who has been a victim of excessive political bashing. It's all excessive but it's the nature of the beast.

    I know people have different political beliefs and we can't all agree. But my personal pet peeve is when people are so blinded by their opinions that they can't see the flaws in their own position and can't take an objective look at the people who echo their beliefs. Like the fucktards who argue that CNN or Fox News are more ojective than the other. It's bullshit.
  7. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    See, that's the scam. You've been taught the scare tactics of insurance companies. It is like car insurance. We pay for the shitty drivers, not the responsible ones. I think health insurance is necessary, but he is right in his poorly worded fashion.

    My company foots my bill very well, but if you look at the out of pocket cost to spending ratio, the insurance company makes about $10,000 off my policy. Basically, we pay for the fear of what MIGHT happen, not for the years we are healthy.

    You went worse case scenario.
    Valid points, but the idea that insurance is priced too high is different than saying it's a scam. It's not a scam. It's a legitimate service.
  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    You know, what gets me is that this whole thing basically just causes harm for no real purpose. Whether you're for it or against it, Obama ran in ACA and won, polls show the majority of the public is for it, they've tried God knows how many bills now to repeal it with no success, and even a conservative majority Supreme Court said it passed muster. At this point the Senate says it absolutely will not repeal it, and Obama can veto it if somehow something does make it to his desk (he doesn't have to run another election)...

    It is NOT going away.

    This is all just political theater, but real people end up hurt...to my mind that is a real failure on the part of our "Representatives".

    I agree, though, that it's possible just enough of these folks are delusional enough to hold the line for awhile...then we'll see some real damage done by our own elected officials...
    We'll have to wait to see how it all shakes out before we can determine who is hurt, how they're hurt and if efforts to stop it were justified.

    It's easy to be for healthcare reform in theory. There will likely be some new opinions when voters start to feel the monetary impact first hand.
  9. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:54pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Really? DHS. No, they don't care if it gets thrown back at them at all. America is all about creating more bureaucratic mess than fixing a problem. There is a broken system in place that cost billions, fix that. Instead, lets create an entirely NEW system of healthcare that runs CONCURRENTLY with the broken system. While we are at it, let's shut the government down as well. That way, we go further and further in debt, but they can say "see what we did!!!!"

    I love where I live, but I am constantly reminded why I hate our stupidity.
    I was referring to legislators who have to vote on new legislation...the voting public is too reactionary to the word "welfare" to take the time to understand the context, and politicians know it. It would have made the most sense to use the existing system for providing the very service in question, but I expect the political calculation was that it was just political suicide to do it. I recall some early discussions where it was brought up, but it quickly got shredded...in the end they couldn't even keep their own separate single payer system in play...

    Edit: You're 100% correct on the inefficiency of it...the redundancy between the toe systems must be enormous (so, wasted $$, wasted resources, more opportunity for things to go "wrong"). Again, most of these changes pushed by people and interests who are pretty up front that they just want this program to fail outright...
    Last edited by Keslet; 10/01/2013 8:10pm at .
  10. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2013 7:59pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    For me it was always preventative care not major catastrophes. So, no, I never looked at it that way, but I understand your feeling.
    Actually, that's a great example of the general public being reactive in their thinking about this...so many arguments about preventative care as some kind of luxury, when so much research supports that front loading good preventative care cuts way down on acute care costs in the long run, with a substantial net savings to the system. Instead we still get the argument of "we don't need this program, nobody gets turned away from ER's". A fundamental disconnect from the reality of the service being provided...
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