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  1. -TANK- is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 6:31pm

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     Style: Judo, Wrestling, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    BTW if you really where worried about Federal deficit and spending you have to fix it on a state level.
    We have 17 states that manage to pay more into federal government than they get back and 1 state that pays in exactly what it gets back. The rest get more from the federal government than they pay in, in income tax.
    Fix those states fix their broken as economies and policies.
    New Jersey is awesome they only get .61 cents back on every $1 they pay in income tax but New Mexico those ass hole take $2.03 for every dollar they pay in.
    You could claim border issues but CA, TX are both under a $1 but they are large states. So lets look at AZ $1.19 now that is reasonable. AZ is on the border and a small state. So the extra .19 makes sense.
    Nah, you are right, We are working on our tax structure. The last asshole governor we had did us in. We now have an excellent one, that is reducing the taxes, and attempting to draw in business, but with a horrid education, tax, and employment history we aren't a great draw. Quality of life kicks ass, come out here I will buy you lunch. Its awesome if you aint broke. The labs feed us for now, but who knows.
  2. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 9:13pm


     Style: Kendo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting commentary here. TLDR: if Obama gives in, it's bad for both sides.
  3. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 10:18pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To those pushing that this was a law enacted by both houses of congress as set forth in our constitution.

    You being the same people spouting 'fairness'. Especially to you Bobby, you whining hate filled sack of ****.

    I remember this unfolding live, via CSPAN and couldn't believe the difference between what was being touted as 'fairness' by the party in power, only days later to see the below sweetheart deals given to Louisiana, Nebraska, Florida among others in exchange for their votes in support of the ACA.

    This country as a whole has lost sight of any pretense to living under our constitution. Be it the judges, politicians, ignorant people at the ballot box (both sides) and especially this corrupt president and his lackey administration.

    http://www.collincountyheadlines.com...siness-in.html

    Friday, April 2, 2010
    Sweetheart deals have no business in healthcare reform law
    Sweetheart deals have no business in healthcare reform law
    By U.S. Congressman Sam Johnson
    It�s astounding how the Democrats in Washington have broken their promise to change Congress.
    Recently the President signed the most sweeping expansion of government-run healthcare into law. However, the law includes so much more than just healthcare; the new law is chalk full of political paybacks and back-scratching bonuses for well�connected constituencies and long-term allies. These sweetheart deals and political paybacks to garner votes have no business in the healthcare reform law.

    You may remember that the U.S. Senate passed this flawed bill on Christmas Eve only after dozens of Senators cut special deals in exchange for their support. It�s just gross. What�s another phrase for hustling votes? Buying them.

    The list of special deals in the healthcare bill is jaw-dropping. What�s even more breathtaking is that the Senators have shamelessly claimed credit for bringing home the bacon.
    Ironically, it�s their own constituents who are saying that they don�t want any part of these backroom deals.

    The healthcare bill that the President signed into law on March 23rd included a $300 million Medicaid payout to Louisiana, designed to secure the vote of Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), dubbed the �Louisiana Purchase.�
    In addition, Democrat Senator Ben Nelson received special treatment for his state with the so-called �Cornhusker Kickback� that carves out Nebraska from increased Medicaid costs � charging the taxpayer credit card $100 million.

    Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) received �Gator Aid.� The healthcare law cuts billions from the Medicare Advantage program � forcing millions of seniors out of their current health care plan. However, Senator Nelson negotiated a special deal included in the bill the President signed that protects only Florida seniors from these cuts.

    Chris Dodd (D-CT) secured �The Dodd Clinic,� the University of Connecticut hospital facility slated to receive $100 million at his request.

    The �Hoffa Handout� defrays the medical costs for union members costing $5 billion.

    Democrat Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon can take credit for the �Oregon Fail.� The Senate health care bill imposes a new tax on employer-sponsored health plans. Yet Senator Merkley was able to secure a special deal for a constituency that worked like the dickens to get him elected.
    A provision of the new law shields longshoremen from the full impact of the new tax while the rest of America gets soaked.

    Democrat Senators Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan can take credit for the �Favors for Fat Cats,� a perk for their privileged and politically connected friends in their respective states.
    The healthcare law levies a new annual tax on health insurers. However, the healthcare bill that the President signed into law on March 23rd provides an exemption to a narrow group, solely exempting Blue Cross Blue Shield of Nebraska and Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. That�s not right.

    Democrat Senator Max Baucus of Montana fought to ensure special health coverage for miners in Libby, Montana with the �Coal Miner Carve-out.�

    Both of the Hawaiian Senators sought the �Hawaiian Handout� that reduces payments to hospitals for treating uninsured patients under the federal Disproportionate Share Hospital (DSH) program. Hawaii�s two Democrat Senators inserted a special deal for their state hospitals.
    A section in the law shields Hawaiian facilities from proposed cuts in DSH payments was expanded at the minute to include Tennessee, coincidentally the same time that retiring Rep. Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.) announced he was switching his no vote to yes.

    These are only the political paybacks that we know about. What else is in the 2,000 page, $2.6 trillion law?

    Whether you agree or disagree with the healthcare reform law, it is clearly the most far-reaching piece of legislation that Congress has dealt with in decades.
    The White House and the Democrats in the House and Senate remade healthcare for every American by the slimmest of margins. By contrast, Social Security and Medicare were passed with bipartisan majorities in both Houses. Legislation with such an astounding impact should stand on its own merits, not on a foundation of shady backroom bargains, sweetheart deals, and vote buying. The American people want, need and deserve better.
  4. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 10:38pm


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Interesting commentary here. TLDR: if Obama gives in, it's bad for both sides.
    Good piece, although he kind of goes off the deep end at the end. I especially liked this part:
    Obama used a "trick" to pass the ACA into law. This is a common meme among those opposed to the Affordable Care Act and/or President Obama. It's less noxious than declaring the law invalid because Obama is a Muslim socialist from Kenya, but nevertheless it is simply not true.

    During the debate over the ACA, the constitutional process in both the House and the Senate specifically acknowledged the concerns of the conservative minority. There are more than one hundred and ninety-two republican amendments to the Affordable Care Act specifically addressing the minority's concerns. The president himself, over the strenuous objection of his own supporters and a significant fraction of the voting public, compromised with the minority by dropping his election year promise of a public single-payer option.

    Again, the objections of the minority were acknowledged and did, very much, temper the outcome.

    Exactly as the Founders intended.

    And while there was public discussion among certain Democrats regarding the possible use of obscure procedural tactics during the Reconciliation process between House and Senate versions of the bill, in the end Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, was able to pull together a majority consensus by, in part, getting President Obama to reaffirm The Hyde Act via Executive Order in direct acknowledgement of minority concerns, and the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was passed by normal House vote 219 to 212 on March 23, 2010.
    Are you listening, Tank? When you say that Obamacare was a secret deal or that it was forced down our throats, this is why you are wrong.
    Last edited by OwlMatt; 10/07/2013 10:43pm at .
  5. -TANK- is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2013 11:51pm

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     Style: Judo, Wrestling, TKD

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I watched also. The bro- deals, Union concessions, this ACA will not insure every one- so it fails. So all that has occurred now are huge increases in premiums and less rich coverage.

    Also of note is the reality that the losers who supported this atrocity got exemptions. Thought there were laws against that. Congress are all pussies.

    The fact they are exempt is reason enough to repeal the damn thing.
    No leadership from DC, bunch of pussie puppets.
  6. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2013 1:19am


     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by -TANK- View Post
    I watched also. The bro- deals, Union concessions, this ACA will not insure every one- so it fails. So all that has occurred now are huge increases in premiums and less rich coverage.

    Also of note is the reality that the losers who supported this atrocity got exemptions. Thought there were laws against that. Congress are all pussies.

    The fact they are exempt is reason enough to repeal the damn thing.
    No leadership from DC, bunch of pussie puppets.
    I get that you don't like Obamacare, and I understand some of the reasons you don't think it will work. But that's not an excuse to make bullshit claims about it being "forced" on us; it was only forced on us insofar as every piece of legislation ever has been forced on us.

    Obamacare is the law of the land, put in place legitimately by this country's legislative process. That same legislative process, by the way, can be used against Obamacare. The problem is that the Teapublicans in the House want to live in a country where a minority can skip the legislative process altogether and force its will on the majority without having to win a vote, and that scares me much more than the possibility that Obamacare will turn out to be ineffective and overly expensive.
  7. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2013 2:26am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    You being the same people spouting 'fairness'. Especially to you Bobby, you whining hate filled sack of ****.
    I'm hate filled?

    There are some cold sons of bitches in this world, but no one is lower than a person who advocates healthcare for the entire populace.

    p.s. Society attempting to be "fair" or supportive of it's population, isn't the same as politics being fair, which differs from say...a fair maiden, locked in a tower quite a fair way off. You have a fair grasp of it, yes?

    It's fairly close to that time when you need a vag de-sanding, and might consider including me in stuff I'd said, rather than dry humping your lazily arranged, imaginary hippie strawman motif blowup doll of me.
  8. -TANK- is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2013 7:58am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I get that you don't like Obamacare, and I understand some of the reasons you don't think it will work. But that's not an excuse to make bullshit claims about it being "forced" on us; it was only forced on us insofar as every piece of legislation ever has been forced on us.

    Obamacare is the law of the land, put in place legitimately by this country's legislative process. That same legislative process, by the way, can be used against Obamacare. The problem is that the Teapublicans in the House want to live in a country where a minority can skip the legislative process altogether and force its will on the majority without having to win a vote, and that scares me much more than the possibility that Obamacare will turn out to be ineffective and overly expensive.
    In my humble, professional opinion, this was 'forced on people'
    One thing I know for sure is that the relationship between a doctor and his patient can be very precarious.

    Therefor, when a government makes any rule, by whatever means- and inserts themselves into this relationship it fails.

    You drive a car, to take a risk, YOU MUST buy car insurance at least liability.
    You breath, you live, where the **** is the risk? A Medical claim? You pay the claim if you can afford to, Or buy insurance, and if you cant there has ALWAYS been CHIP. Don't have the money, get a better paying job, cant? Get welfare...DONE!
    Throughout society people handled this at the personal level, employers last century in the beginning had a company doctor for employees to go see for free, workers comp, protections, etc., all good things came along.

    Along comes Blue Cross, hospital coverage, Blue Shield Doc Coverage, they agree to see people on a preventative care basis hoping to catch **** early and often, thus saving costs, and lives. [Insert corporate running health plans...careful now]

    Regardless of how a person feels about where, how, when you need medical attention, regardless of is it 'necessary', it is bullshit to have it FORCED on us. Why is it that 50% minimum don't want it. (more like 70, imo)? Why is it the VA is FREE and those SOB's refuse to go there? Why? Gubment RAN!

    Why is it states fought it tooth and nail? Why is it Insurance companies instantly raised rates right after the ACA passed, and insurance company stock went up?

    Look you don't have to believe this from me. Ask you doctor's. It is killing them to have malpractice insurance skyrocket. They absofuckinglutely HATE the Rx companies, and the costs of 1 tab of a certain drug more than a nice dinner. Rx companies advertise like motherfuckers (thus WE ARE PAYING THEM TO ADVERTISE- Follow the money!) they used to NOT be able to do this. Use to be, go to the bathroom, take a ****, read the Readers Digest and see pages of tiny print filled Rx warnings...

    Now all you get is commercials, SELLING their promises to people. Belly bands, Sleep Drugs, soft dick solutions, then tell me how does this HELP us? Whats the point of a person doing 12 years of his/her life to going to school to have the Rx come and back door his ass on getting people to come DEMANDING Allegra?!? That **** can kill you.

    Anyway, not many want this ACA (it is the law, I call it that!). [yet MANY want FREE ANYTHING]
    What we all know IN the business and Medical profession is fix the law suit happy fuckers, cap all but NEGLIGENCE. Stop allowing Rx from advertising, we did it smoking and alcohol, and while I must admit, there is a ton of **** I love, no pre-ex, no-caps, etc., preventive, blood tests, mams, colons, etc.,but they did it all backwards, because of PAC's. Start there...but they didn't...

    Pelosi told lawmakers, ya gotta pass it to see whats in it, and then the coup de gra - Fucking IRS manages it? Really? All those gubment employees did was cookie cut medicare, and cobra **** rules on things, AND with 30 hour work week, those fuckers invade private industry telling them what to do...How about letting those companies who don't want to offer insurance try to make it...competition will create pressure and good employees will go where the best benefits are, and the **** employees will work for the non-caring fucks who don't offer, thus 'natural business selection', rather than some 'spread the wealth- libtard attitude', want real competition? Get the **** out of our way! States should RUN insurance, not the feds. States also should run Board of Education, NOT THE FEDS, States should run Land management, NOT THE FED! Sorry, someone tell me the fallacy there, just ranting...

    That's the problems at a glance and talk to your doctors. They want insurance companies OUT of their practices, they want power to do what they need to do without some ignoramus's suing them to death, MD tries to help and all he gets is grief. (yes some are fucked up, I get that- those asshole docs end up on the reservation or worse, hospitalist's...haha jk)

    The indie mandate is a huge deal to everyone, and millions won't pay it, and more will avoid it somehow, its all fucked up. I went through the training.

    Mr. O delayed employer penalty until after the election- so why not indie...I know I know, the whole thing fails if you don't collect from the young healthy peeps.

    You guys have no idea....End of my rant...how you all doing today...?
  9. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2013 8:30am


     Style: aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by -TANK- View Post
    In my humble, professional opinion, this was 'forced on people'
    ...
    *wall of text about why I don't like Obamacare*
    Okay, since you continue to insist this, how was the ACA any more "forced" than any other piece of legislation ever?
  10. -TANK- is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2013 10:09am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    Okay, since you continue to insist this, how was the ACA any more "forced" than any other piece of legislation ever?
    Its been tried before, and failed. Like I said, reforming health care is fine, its just that special interests get their say, way to much. I am capitalist but I draw the line here...

    There is a saying in sports, 'if you make all your decisions based on what is good for the athlete {insert Patient}, you cannot go wrong'- we have not done this with the ACA. Even the dems admit this.

    So PAC's, (my own damn PAC- Financial Advisors, Insurance Reps/Brokers) screw things up. In our state, everyone had access to medical treatment. Nobody was turned away. The insured people paid dearly for this, as someone has to pay the bill. But I believe it is a state specific thing. Someone said it works in MA, fine.

    Also, what do politics have to do with my health care? Get out of my life...is my feeling. If I have a heart attack, and cannot pay the bill, I am fucked. Too bad for me. Maybe I shouldve taken better care of myself. Note: Do you really think Medicare as it is today, parts A, B, C, D will be as it is in 20 years? Not happening. Fat people, smokers, poor choice makers will pay way more, and I like the ACA when it comes to the Wellness Program. Lockheed Martin has a sweet one, they are self insurred...anyway, this legislation should not have happened. Lots of laws are 'forced', but none affect us like this one. JMO

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