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  1. #331

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are a lot of false equivalencies that get thrown around when people talk politics...it's hard to avoid, but I think there are distinctions that can be made.

    Corruption, graft, human failings? Politicians have these in spades...just think of what you have to do to get to the highest levels of government office...this is not a system that leads to healthy, well-adjusted, and principled individuals leading the way, generally speaking.

    Anti-intellectualism, distrust of science, and all of that related baggage? Tends to be more of an issue on the right, as Bobby pointed out. Sometimes (often?) it's just an act, as we see people with tons of higher education, multiple Ivy League degrees, and so trying to come off like they just fell off a turnip truck.

    Social and economic policies are certainly different at the moment between the two main US parties, but how much the "talk" gets translated into the "walk" is open to debate...like Obama continuing to have a bunch of Wall Street execs appointed to finance areas...not what "liberals" expected after the big meltdown and hearing about "change"...or when republican economic plans get re-proposed by the democrats, and now they're all against them...even had some cases where the republican co-writer and sponsor of a bill votes against it...

    So, there are differences in what each party is promoting and the principles they say they stand for, but, being politicians, principles can shift pretty quickly...

  2. #332
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many broad brush strokes being painted here.

    Keslet- you remind me of the early Wrabbit. Opinion on everything and ready to post. It ain't all bad.

    Boby, you need a beer. Chill dude. We're not all that evil, stupid or hung up on the earth bring 6kyrsold.

    IiF- Hell, we need a good first black president. Interested?

    Devil- yeah, what you said.

    Thanks all posting in this thread, including those not mentioned above. Good entertainment on a Friday night.

    One middle aged guy's thoughts......

    We all live on this 70% blue marble, poised just far enough away from our sun to support a diversity of life.

    We're not all that different. Circumstance has put us (the blue marble population, not this small sampling of bs members) at different points in terms of geographic, socioeconomic, ethnic, idealistic, etc, blah blah blat, etc.

    Here, in the US, we live under a system of a democratic republic. For those not in the know, that means we live under a system of laws wherein an individuals individual rights are respected. Not necessarily their ideals on any given subject, but their right to at least endorse this individual idea.

    Idea of what?

    Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? States rights? Right to assembly? Right to free speech? Right to possess the the ability to defend oneself?

    Herein is where the ideology part smacks us square in the face.

    Life is not fair. Fair = not cheating. Fair = playing by the rules.

    This ACA is a calculated grab by the current administration and the party that has the same 'ideal' of fairness to grab 1/7 of the US economy, institute a system, knowing that, once implemented, will be hard to reverse.

    Opponents, those of limited government, see this as an affront to state and individual rights. Remember, our US Supreme Court Chief Justice, a Republican, was the deciding vote on this matter. His determination was based on the fact that this was, indeed, another FEDERAL tax.

    Another TAX? I'm paying to help 26 year old adults stay on the parental tax plan?

    Paying for another group of people, who by their decisions in life, make less than me (middle class high school dropout) and wanna suck another teat of the middle class tit?

    Pay into a system wherein the congressional staffers, congress itself, the POTUS, labor unions (numbering into the tens of millions), employers employing more than 50 personnel, etc. are exempt?

    BUT I'm penalized if I don't want to participate? Labeled an extremist if I object to this (in my perception) a grab of government power?

    Other side will state Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc as their argument as to why this is another 'good government' stab at a better world.

    Wish I had all that money from 3+ decades of input into the system based on a meager less than 2.5% return. I'd be a retirement account ahead.

    tl;dnr version

    BOTH SIDES SUCK. GRAB YOUR ASS, HOLD IT SHUT. NO ONE MAKING THE RULES CARES ONE RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOU, REGARDLESS OF THE TALKING POINTS YOU HEAR/SEE/READ. YOU'RE ON YOU'RE OWN TO ENSURE YOUR PATH IN THIS LIFE IS FAIRLY DOWNHILL AND DOWNWIND.

    end rant

  3. #333

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Reading a lot of the responses as an outsider, it seems like the most of the posters are fairly fatalistic, all parties are ****, everyone's crazy, Republicans are fucked, liberals are fucked etc etc.

    With out questioning the validity or 'rightness' of anyone's personal ideologies or beliefs, do you think it's possible to make changes in the US for the 'better', or should you all just lube up now?

  4. #334

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Many broad brush strokes being painted here.

    Keslet- you remind me of the early Wrabbit. Opinion on everything and ready to post. It ain't all bad.

    Boby, you need a beer. Chill dude. We're not all that evil, stupid or hung up on the earth bring 6kyrsold.

    IiF- Hell, we need a good first black president. Interested?

    Devil- yeah, what you said.

    Thanks all posting in this thread, including those not mentioned above. Good entertainment on a Friday night.

    One middle aged guy's thoughts......

    We all live on this 70% blue marble, poised just far enough away from our sun to support a diversity of life.

    We're not all that different. Circumstance has put us (the blue marble population, not this small sampling of bs members) at different points in terms of geographic, socioeconomic, ethnic, idealistic, etc, blah blah blat, etc.

    Here, in the US, we live under a system of a democratic republic. For those not in the know, that means we live under a system of laws wherein an individuals individual rights are respected. Not necessarily their ideals on any given subject, but their right to at least endorse this individual idea.

    Idea of what?

    Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? States rights? Right to assembly? Right to free speech? Right to possess the the ability to defend oneself?

    Herein is where the ideology part smacks us square in the face.

    Life is not fair. Fair = not cheating. Fair = playing by the rules.

    This ACA is a calculated grab by the current administration and the party that has the same 'ideal' of fairness to grab 1/7 of the US economy, institute a system, knowing that, once implemented, will be hard to reverse.

    Opponents, those of limited government, see this as an affront to state and individual rights. Remember, our US Supreme Court Chief Justice, a Republican, was the deciding vote on this matter. His determination was based on the fact that this was, indeed, another FEDERAL tax.

    Another TAX? I'm paying to help 26 year old adults stay on the parental tax plan?

    Paying for another group of people, who by their decisions in life, make less than me (middle class high school dropout) and wanna suck another teat of the middle class tit?

    Pay into a system wherein the congressional staffers, congress itself, the POTUS, labor unions (numbering into the tens of millions), employers employing more than 50 personnel, etc. are exempt?

    BUT I'm penalized if I don't want to participate? Labeled an extremist if I object to this (in my perception) a grab of government power?

    Other side will state Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc as their argument as to why this is another 'good government' stab at a better world.

    Wish I had all that money from 3+ decades of input into the system based on a meager less than 2.5% return. I'd be a retirement account ahead.

    tl;dnr version

    BOTH SIDES SUCK. GRAB YOUR ASS, HOLD IT SHUT. NO ONE MAKING THE RULES CARES ONE RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOU, REGARDLESS OF THE TALKING POINTS YOU HEAR/SEE/READ. YOU'RE ON YOU'RE OWN TO ENSURE YOUR PATH IN THIS LIFE IS FAIRLY DOWNHILL AND DOWNWIND.

    end rant
    Another comparison to Wrabbit...I don't know this guy but I'm getting the impression this is not a compliment (though is the "ain't all bad" part of the comment saying my posting is not a bad thing, or that I'm being too negative?)

    I apologize if I'm coming off as some kind of know-it-all, that's not my intent. It is just my opinion, coming from a middle-aged guy with an interest in this stuff. I didn't think I was going too far out there or being all that preachy, but okay, point taken.

  5. #335

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Auszi View Post
    Reading a lot of the responses as an outsider, it seems like the most of the posters are fairly fatalistic, all parties are ****, everyone's crazy, Republicans are fucked, liberals are fucked etc etc.

    With out questioning the validity or 'rightness' of anyone's personal ideologies or beliefs, do you think it's possible to make changes in the US for the 'better', or should you all just lube up now?
    Well, I don't think it's all doom and gloom...I mean, Obamacare is an example of a law that advocates have been trying to get passed in one form or another for DECADES, and here it is...so, things can definitely change (better or worse is open to debate)...

  6. #336
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Auszi View Post
    Reading a lot of the responses as an outsider, it seems like the most of the posters are fairly fatalistic, all parties are ****, everyone's crazy, Republicans are fucked, liberals are fucked etc etc.

    With out questioning the validity or 'rightness' of anyone's personal ideologies or beliefs, do you think it's possible to make changes in the US for the 'better', or should you all just lube up now?
    If not now, maybe in the not too far unforeseen future. Be sure to ask for the 'reach around' (-:

    After all, it is the "fair" thing to do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #337
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Auszi View Post
    Reading a lot of the responses as an outsider, it seems like the most of the posters are fairly fatalistic, all parties are ****, everyone's crazy, Republicans are fucked, liberals are fucked etc etc.

    With out questioning the validity or 'rightness' of anyone's personal ideologies or beliefs, do you think it's possible to make changes in the US for the 'better', or should you all just lube up now?
    True change is certainly a possibility but if it comes it won't be through the political process. Most likely it won't happen any time soon. We don't need to lube up. In the global scheme of things we've got super white girl problems.
    Last edited by Devil; 10/04/2013 10:27pm at .

  8. #338

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    We don't need to lube up. In the global scheme of things we've got super white girl problems.
    ^^^100% agree with that statement

  9. #339
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Auszi View Post
    Reading a lot of the responses as an outsider, it seems like the most of the posters are fairly fatalistic, all parties are ****, everyone's crazy, Republicans are fucked, liberals are fucked etc etc.

    With out questioning the validity or 'rightness' of anyone's personal ideologies or beliefs, do you think it's possible to make changes in the US for the 'better', or should you all just lube up now?
    We really are not all that fucked. The federal goverment is not nearly as important in this country as it is in other countries. Its kind of like the EU. But has the power to tax.
    State level politics have more influence on our daily lives and they tend to lean heavily one way or the other. CA say vs Texas is almost as different as two countries that share the same language.

    In fact at the core and where are two parties take their names from is the quibal over having a strong centeral goverment or strong state goverments.

  10. #340
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    So his biracial status doesn't matter at all because his African traits are more visually dominate?
    Yes, that's exactly what I said jackass. I'm am talking about society and how the one-drop rule exists, unless it is convenient to point out a person is mixed.

    Is the fact that he was raised in a white household just get completely over looked by the Black community?
    Nope, it is dumber and much more elusive than that and it is basically the opposite of what VM says below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Welcome to the land of the one-drop theory. On my first visit to the US (NY, NY, 1970), I saw a woman with the scarcest trace of African ancestry (could easily have been Mediterranean or a number of other things) self-defining as "Black" in an interview. Coming from a country without a one-drop rule, eight-year-old me was a little perplexed.
    Good example.
    Once used by purity-obsessed whites, the one-drop rule is a way that older Black groups try to keep their numbers up
    Still used by whites.
    which is why they have little good to say about newer groups of people who self-identify as bi-racial or multiracial.
    There is an entirely different type of racism inherent in being bi-racial. It's actually pretty hypocritical and funny to me. Less about numbers and newer groups WAAAAAAAAY more about perception. It always surprises me that this self hatred stays so well hidden.


    Politics will crush commonsense any day of the week.
    Yep.

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