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  1. ermghoti is online now
    ermghoti's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2014 7:56am

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     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Knee Circles = Asploded Ligaments?



    So... I haven't trained in some time, partly financial, partly physical, partly life circumstances. Boo on me.

    The initial injury that stopped me from training was what I believe to have been a strained MCL (didn't go to the doctor. Boo on me.).

    We were drilling a newly introduced attack from side control, zero resistance, I was uke. So, essentially, I was on my back doing nothing. I felt a sharp pain like a cramp shoot through my knee, which I thought was odd, there not being muscles in the knee. Finished class without issue. When I went to stand up, however, I had serious, heavy limp type pain in the inside of that knee. It ended up taking months to return to normal, would have easily kept me from training for three months (at which point the pulled back I got painting my ceiling took over).

    We did knee circles as routine warmups. It never seemed stressful in the least, and was described as a warm up, and not a stretch, just utilizing the range of motion prior to loading the joints.

    I guess, in retrospect, I wonder if repeated knee circles had introduced minor injury, which then let go with little provocation, the same way abusing your back can result in blowing out doing something innocuous later?

    Anybody familiar with this line of thought?
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
  2. soft touch is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2014 8:17am


     Style: Goju Ryu/Balintawak Arnis

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not an expert on knee circles or any bjj drills but I have a decent level of knowledge about basic anatomy and an understanding of joint damage from lifting coaches and physios mainly
    I would guess that given there's no load placed directly on the knee while it explores its ROM, and there's little to no torquing, knee circles probably wouldn't do the damage, though the principle of provoking injury or the whole 'straw that broke the camel's back' principle absolutely applies
    bear in mind I'm don't regularly do the exercise in question, so I might be mistaken on how you're moving your knee

    Sent from my GT-I9100
  3. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2014 9:02am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    We did knee circles as routine warmups. It never seemed stressful in the least, and was described as a warm up, and not a stretch, just utilizing the range of motion prior to loading the joints.
    Yeah ... that video left me whelmed. I wish he'd used more anatomy and less shitty metaphor (seriously, prying a door hinge with a screwdriver?) because he's not that convincing a speaker. Also, the bit about "in the hopes of creating more flexible knees" - seriously? Does anybody actually think that, or is he putting forth a strawman?

    I have vested interest in knowing if it does raise potential risks, because we do that in every class I teach (range of motion warmup for all the joints, working up from the ankle).
  4. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2014 4:00pm


     Style: Does exercise count?

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are lots of half-truths and poor understandings going on in that video.

    1. The knee is not solely a hinge joint. It possess degrees of rotation that contribute to relative tibial internal and external rotation. This is necessary achieving and returning from terminal knee extension.

    2. Biological systems and mechanical systems are not the same thing. In a car, small amounts of stress over time causes damage. In a living organism, small amounts of stress (with sufficient recovery) over time causes adaptation. What do you think exercise is?

    Knee circles as a warm up are probably fine for most people. Doing them with a lot of added load or in ranges of motion you can't control might be an issue in some cases, but that's fairly true of most things.

    The only thing I really agree with is that specifically hoping to stretch ligaments doesn't make a lot of sense. I once saw a video of Eddie Bravo advocating this and I cringed a little because it looked like he was trying to put himself in a joint lock by cranking on himself. I don't think knee circles do this in any significant way.

    If there's a specific condition present, consult a medically trained professional who has treated you.
  5. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2014 4:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Pepper View Post
    I have vested interest in knowing if it does raise potential risks, because we do that in every class I teach (range of motion warmup for all the joints, working up from the ankle).
    When I taught kung fu and tai chi, I'd start classes that way too. Partly to warm up the whole body as an injury prevention exercise, and partly as a kinesthetic awareness exercise.
  6. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2014 5:55pm


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    When I taught kung fu and tai chi, I'd start classes that way too. Partly to warm up the whole body as an injury prevention exercise, and partly as a kinesthetic awareness exercise.
    It became part of my standard class warmup about 20 years ago, when I was rehabbing a sprained ankle.

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