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  1. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 2:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do those of you, who induced the earlier-mentioned gag reflex on drunks, wear raincoats?

    You might want to.
  2. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 6:50am


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    It's works pretty well, but there can always be someone who it won't work on. Which is the same as the hollow be hind the ear. I was fighting a guy one time and had my thumb half way up to the knuckle in the hollow behind the ear, with no effect. But some people you barely touch there and they freak out. It is what it is.

    Then again, I've seen the same thing with pepper spray, but that doesn't mean we discard pepper spray all together. Just be aware of it's limitations.
    Well, it is precisely the limitations that I am trying to learn about ;-)
    My goal is to find a way to do it that works against reasonable percentage of people;
    and if there is no such way, to discard it. (Taking the circumstances into account too - it is something else to apply 'pressure point attack' against your brother, or non-violent protester; and something else to do it to somebody who is really trying to do you harm).

    Of course, the best way would be to try it on a large representative group of people.
    But lacking such a thing, I have to ask at least for anecdotal evidence here on the forum.

    I will try to experiment a bit, taking into account some things I read here.

    BTW: The ItIsFake's video set me thinking: I would probably not use the pressure point behind the ear as an attack; yet, it is a part of several headlock counters I know, where it seems to work reasonably well.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 9:10am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    Well, it is precisely the limitations that I am trying to learn about ;-)

    it is something else to apply 'pressure point attack' against your brother, or non-violent protester; and something else to do it to somebody who is really trying to do you harm).
    Yeah, I get what you are saying. The best way to know somethings limitations is to play with it and experiment with it.


    My brother and some of my unkles are my best training partners. My brother is a Cop and former Army Ranger. My unkle is also a Cop. Another one is a Federal Cop. We have faught, wrestled, trained our whole lives. When I say that I tried something on him, it would be against a completely resisting opponent. Because the stuff we use is used in situations that could be life threatening. For example, I broke my Unkle's ankle accidentally one time. Have given my unkle and dad black eyes(my dad is a college fencing instructor). Broke my brother's ribs. Knocked out one of my cousins.

    Just so you know where I'm coming from.

    Also, I've seen different people do this technique a little differently. I've seen the crossed fingers as described by tgace. I've also done it just by using the middle finger to push into that spot. So if someone is video taping you, it looks like you are just putting your hand on someone's chest as if to stop them from coming closer to you.

    Best to just play with it and see what works best for you.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  4. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 2:28pm


     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Oh, yeah I've used this one.
    By coincidence I showed this to a new-ish student last week. It got his attention, like VN says above, be ready with a Plan B.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 4:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    Well, it is precisely the limitations that I am trying to learn about ;-)
    My goal is to find a way to do it that works against reasonable percentage of people;
    and if there is no such way, to discard it. (Taking the circumstances into account too - it is something else to apply 'pressure point attack' against your brother, or non-violent protester; and something else to do it to somebody who is really trying to do you harm).

    Of course, the best way would be to try it on a large representative group of people.
    But lacking such a thing, I have to ask at least for anecdotal evidence here on the forum.

    I will try to experiment a bit, taking into account some things I read here.

    BTW: The ItIsFake's video set me thinking: I would probably not use the pressure point behind the ear as an attack; yet, it is a part of several headlock counters I know, where it seems to work reasonably well.
    Here's the problem:


    The belief above is hinted at in some of your posts. If you look at old manuals, talk to legit martial artists and learn pressure points you find out it is rarely your "go to" move. That's why I said secondary.


    The video above sums up 99% of what is sold as pressure points.
  6. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 4:27pm


     Style: Wrestle, Kickbox, Aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Yeah, I get what you are saying. The best way to know somethings limitations is to play with it and experiment with it.


    My brother and some of my unkles are my best training partners. My brother is a Cop and former Army Ranger. My unkle is also a Cop. Another one is a Federal Cop. We have faught, wrestled, trained our whole lives. When I say that I tried something on him, it would be against a completely resisting opponent. Because the stuff we use is used in situations that could be life threatening. For example, I broke my Unkle's ankle accidentally one time. Have given my unkle and dad black eyes(my dad is a college fencing instructor). Broke my brother's ribs. Knocked out one of my cousins.

    Just so you know where I'm coming from.

    Also, I've seen different people do this technique a little differently. I've seen the crossed fingers as described by tgace. I've also done it just by using the middle finger to push into that spot. So if someone is video taping you, it looks like you are just putting your hand on someone's chest as if to stop them from coming closer to you.

    Best to just play with it and see what works best for you.

    Your family reunions must be a blast!
  7. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 5:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE BTW: The ItIsFake's video set me thinking: I would probably not use the pressure point behind the ear as an attack; yet, it is a part of several headlock counters I know, where it seems to work reasonably well.[/QUOTE]

    I once tried the point behind the ear defense against a headlock. Fortunately, my partner was a friend, so it didn't hurt too much when he punched me in the head with his free hand and laughed at it. I didn't try the finger under the bridge of the nose defense, since I figured I'd get the same result. Looking back, I figure I was lucky that he didn't just drop to the ground with my head under his arm. Its been my experience that most people with some training don't respond to pressure point attacks, at least those attacks that use pressure to get pain compliance.

    [QUOTE BTW: The ItIsFake's video set me thinking: I would probably not use the pressure point behind the ear as an attack; yet, it is a part of several headlock counters I know, where it seems to work reasonably well.[/QUOTE]

    I once tried the point behind the ear defense against a headlock. Fortunately, my partner was a friend, so it didn't hurt too much when he punched me in the head with his free hand and laughed at it. I didn't try the finger under the bridge of the nose defense, since I figured I'd get the same result. Looking back, I figure I was lucky that he didn't just drop to the ground with my head under his arm. Its been my experience that most people with some training don't respond to pressure point attacks, at least those attacks that use pressure to get pain compliance.
  8. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 8:00pm


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    [QUOTE BTW: The ItIsFake's video set me thinking: I would probably not use the pressure point behind the ear as an attack; yet, it is a part of several headlock counters I know, where it seems to work reasonably well.
    I once tried the point behind the ear defense against a headlock. Fortunately, my partner was a friend, so it didn't hurt too much when he punched me in the head with his free hand and laughed at it. I didn't try the finger under the bridge of the nose defense, since I figured I'd get the same result. Looking back, I figure I was lucky that he didn't just drop to the ground with my head under his arm. Its been my experience that most people with some training don't respond to pressure point attacks, at least those attacks that use pressure to get pain compliance.
    Hard to make assumptions as I do not know what exactly went on; but in my experience, for headlock escape using the pressure points, good mechanics is essential. That means, standing up straight (=base), not bent over at back etc.
    It is not randomly prodding the point, it is pushing the opponent off you, with your fist conveniently behind his ear. In other words, the pressure point just augments the wrestling.

    If you do not have a good base in the first place, you cannot push the opponent away. However, that applies also to the headlock defenses that rely on throwing your opponent down.

    And if he goes down with you before you manage to counter, it is useless, of course.
  9. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2013 10:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    Hard to make assumptions as I do not know what exactly went on; but in my experience, for headlock escape using the pressure points, good mechanics is essential. That means, standing up straight (=base), not bent over at back etc.
    It is not randomly prodding the point, it is pushing the opponent off you, with your fist conveniently behind his ear. In other words, the pressure point just augments the wrestling.

    If you do not have a good base in the first place, you cannot push the opponent away. However, that applies also to the headlock defenses that rely on throwing your opponent down.

    And if he goes down with you before you manage to counter, it is useless, of course.

    I understand the concept of pushing the attacker away as opposed to just poking, but its a headlock and you're bent over. Are you saying that you stand straight up as you push the pressure point because the point pressure makes it possible (distracts, etc.)? I've also seen something similar done with reaching for the ear point with one hand and lifting his near leg with the other to take him down.

    There are a lot of headlock defenses out there. I think a lot depends on body position, whether there's movement, relative strength, pain tolerance, etc. What I've learned is that there are 2 potential bad scenarios: (1) you get punched in the face repeatedly -- so its a good idea to reach around his back and hold on to the arm that's not around your neck, and (2) he goes to the ground into a side mount type position with your head under his arm, which could break your neck. So, I figure that, assuming its not just a friend screwing around, after grabbing his free arm I fall back or roll forward, both of which put him on his back. if he's still holding on, I throw my leg over him to get in a mounted position. There are then a couple of things that can get him to let go.
  10. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2013 11:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The term you want to be playing with here is high percentage. Compressing the windpipe is higher percentage than pushing it.

    Osotogari makes it higher percentage again.

    I do push up and under the jaw with my fingers. And that turns the head which creates a bit more safety for me.

    pushing the nose back works the best for defence against bites
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 9/25/2013 11:06am at .
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