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  1. Nefron is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2013 4:33pm


     

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The word for lever and joint lock is the same in Serbian.
  2. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 7:53am


     Style: Wrestle, Kickbox, Aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Usually, when this gets mixed up on tv shows like "fight science", you see them measure the force of impact, and then make some wild comparison to show the kind of structural damage it would do.

    ^^^This is one of the main reasons I stopped watching shows like that...the premise always sounded interesting enough (a real examination of different techniques and styles with modern tech to evaluate), but then the science would just suck and approach would just suck!
  3. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 9:03am


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There seems like an awful lot of Judo throws (especially trips/footsweeps) that would qualify as lever movements.
  4. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 9:25am


     Style: FMA

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can we just start a "bs ma science" thread? Some interesting points have been posted here, and that's why this thread is so boring!

    I'll star by saying that I'm a nerd,i love reading about science and what not. But, when you start bringing science into martial arts you get a lot of pseudo science bs. More science does not equal fighting ability, so why do so many schools and ads market themselves as the "science of fighting"? It's crap, shows like fight science ignore the fact that multiple trials are needed to prove anything and variables need to be accounted for. I recall one episode where a small kf guy, an athletic tkd, big boxer ect.were all striking a dummy and the force was measured, no account was made for the different size of the individuals.
  5. cereus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 7:51pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dunno if it's the sort of thing you are looking for but you could look at the same force applied in an armbar vs a kneebar since the motions are very similar but the levers are different lengths.

    I've actually been wondering about all the BS MA science out there. I was wondering how people here would go about it to make the tests relevant. Personally I'd like to see martial artists attacking simdavers to see what damage is actually done.
  6. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 1:13pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cereus View Post
    I dunno if it's the sort of thing you are looking for but you could look at the same force applied in an armbar vs a kneebar since the motions are very similar but the levers are different lengths.

    I've actually been wondering about all the BS MA science out there. I was wondering how people here would go about it to make the tests relevant. Personally I'd like to see martial artists attacking simdavers to see what damage is actually done.
    Yea, that's an interesting one too.

    As for all the bad science, It seems to boil down to four basic things they get wrong over and over... you guys can probably spot more than me, but these bug me the most:
    1) comparing different individuals to each other like they were all basically the same dude
    2) confusing force(or momentum) with energy and making wild comparisons
    3) taking a tiny sample of data (two punches or something) and/or just taking the best single data point
    4) ignoring the whole "fight" part, where you're trying to punch a dude who doesn't want to get punched, instead of a bag or a force plate.

    If someone wanted to do an impact test right, they would need to monitor a lot of damned punches (or kicks or whatever) for each individual, and they would need three separate distributions for every individual/strike studied: momentum transfer, energy transfer, and surface area. They would also want to make sure the target used is actually representative of a dude on two feet with some hard parts and some squishy parts who doesn't like getting punched.

    Then, if you did that part right, you could separately run some damage tests and map out what energy/momentum/surface area combinations lead to what types of physical damage on the body.

    Put the distributions on top of the maps and you have a full picture of what a punch can do. There's probably more details to be included/considered, but that would be how I would design the test.

    I would love to get the funding to do a study like that, but until I can figure that piece out, I'll just have to dream about it.
  7. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 1:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some FMA levers I can think of off the bat are the gunting, the standing armbar and whatever that thing is where you exploit someone's crossed arms and leverage them against each other at the elbow.

    (Sorry, the name escapes me at the moment.)
  8. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 1:57pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Some FMA levers I can think of off the bat are the gunting, the standing armbar and whatever that thing is where you exploit someone's crossed arms and leverage them against each other at the elbow.

    (Sorry, the name escapes me at the moment.)
    yea, I like the standing armbar idea because it's relatively clean (not a whole lot of other things going on besides the leverage).
  9. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 2:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron View Post
    The word for Serb, Croat, Kosovar, Bosnian and Albanian is the same in Serbian.
    All the same? Must be an identical-gene-pool thing.
  10. cereus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 6:58pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get all the problems with the scientific methodology since I am a chemistry student but I'm in the dark with this kind of testing.

    More extensive studies into the neural and psychological changes that come from training would be interesting. I would expect to see differences between alive and compliant training but you might also see differences between something like wushu and sanshou. Bit off topic there sorry.
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