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  1. silvernight is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2013 3:59am


     Style: FCS,Inosanto/Lacoste Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This could be a crazy vs crazy situation. I've heard a few stories of Grand Tuhon and his eccentricities. Especially watching his personal flame wars on fmatalk a while back. We will probably not really know the full gist of things.
  2. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2013 1:20pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by silvernight View Post
    This could be a crazy vs crazy situation. I've heard a few stories of Grand Tuhon and his eccentricities. Especially watching his personal flame wars on fmatalk a while back. We will probably not really know the full gist of things.
    I haven't really talked with all the people recently, but I'm inclined to believe it's less the personality conflict of Tim vs Gaje, and more Tim vs everyone who's closer to his rank.
  3. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2014 10:46pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    This announcement seems a little ridiculous and politics ridden, I'm not affiliated with ptk but I've seen several Facebook posts supporting tuhon wade. I'm curious of there is any demonstratable evidence in support of these accusations.
    Check his interactions on FMA talk or FMA forum if you are interested, and if they have not deleted the threads entirely. I have seen him, and instructors certified by him, going after several people in the FMA community, to include PTK people from different organizations. He was widely known for claiming to have the only "authentic" PTK, despite many others in his home state, who are also direct students of Gaje, still are trained and certified by him, etc (see the Texas Kali Association for examples).

    My understanding is that Gaje wanted all the different legitimate organizations (Texas Kali, PTK Tactical, etc.) under one umbrella (PTK Alliance) and Waid was severely hampering that effort due to the manner of his actions with others in the PTK world, and the larger FMA world.
  4. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2014 10:49pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Honey Badger View Post
    I can't help but think that Tuhon Bill McGrath is somewhere chuckling softly to himself and saying "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you."
    A bit of a different situation, since my understanding from speaking with Tuhon McGrath is that he left Gaje, rather than the other way around.
  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2014 8:19pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post
    Check his interactions on FMA talk or FMA forum if you are interested, and if they have not deleted the threads entirely. I have seen him, and instructors certified by him, going after several people in the FMA community, to include PTK people from different organizations. He was widely known for claiming to have the only "authentic" PTK, despite many others in his home state, who are also direct students of Gaje, still are trained and certified by him, etc (see the Texas Kali Association for examples).

    My understanding is that Gaje wanted all the different legitimate organizations (Texas Kali, PTK Tactical, etc.) under one umbrella (PTK Alliance) and Waid was severely hampering that effort due to the manner of his actions with others in the PTK world, and the larger FMA world.
    This sounds basically accurate to me
  6. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2014 1:37pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical View Post
    This sounds basically accurate to me
    Thanks. It adds up from what I have seen from the outside looking in.

    Regardless of what his actions may or may not have been, I find the idea of rescinding rank to be completely ridiculous. Either the guy has the skill and knowledge, or he does not. If he did yesterday, he still does today and tomorrow. From that standpoint, though the circumstances are obviously different, it is the same as what happened with Tuhon McGrath. One day GT Gaje is telling the world that McGrath is the only person that he has given the entire PTK system to and a short time later he takes his rank away and starts telling other students that he never game him the real thing. How long before Gaje starts telling people that he never really taught Waid the "real" PTK?

    Here is a pretty good article on the subject that I came across: http://filipinofightingsecretslive.c...id-experience/

    While the author says some inflammatory things, I agree with his general take which is that if you have a falling out with a student you can boot him from your group, but taking his rank away is meaningless, petty, and pretty darn dumb. I am a university professor. This would be akin to me having a falling out with one of my previous graduate students and then putting out a statement that his master's degree was really fake, that I never taught him the subject properly, and that I was taking the degree back. Ludicrous situation? Absolutely.

    To his credit, Tuhon Waid openly gives credit regularly to GT Gaje despite this situation. From everything I have seen, Tuhon McGrath does the same thing.

    I have had the good fortune to do some training with instructors under both Tuhon McGrath and Waid, I can definitely say that they do teach some things differently (footwork in particular). However, it is impossible to discount their skill or knowledge in the system, and at best, it is fair to say that their own personal expressions of the art are different from each other and leave it at that.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 6/10/2014 2:05pm at .
  7. Goddels is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2014 10:50am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I read the article, and even though the writer is very defensive about a lot of stuff, he is completely wrong about so much more that it is hard to take him seriously at all.
  8. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2014 11:21am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Goddels View Post
    I read the article, and even though the writer is very defensive about a lot of stuff, he is completely wrong about so much more that it is hard to take him seriously at all.
    What exactly is he wrong about? He may not be involved in the particulars of the PTK community so I can see where some things in there may not be entirely accurate, and I will be the first to admit that Tuhon Waid did things which antagonized other PTK persons with legitimate rank and who are still active with GT Gaje.

    However, the basic premise of the article is pretty simple to me and seems pretty spot on. If someone trains with you for a long time and has legitimately earned their rank, you can certainly sever ties with them and give them the boot from your organization, but you really cannot take their rank away. The knowledge you transmitted to them cannot be rescinded anymore than their skill will suddenly disappear by your say so. If you were being honest when you gave them the rank, then what the person may or may not have done is irrelevant for that purpose. At the end of the day, they either know their stuff, or they do not.
  9. Goddels is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2014 2:54pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with you about rank. Once given, it can never can be taken away.

    Systematically, the bigger problem stems from the desires of an instructors to prematurely rank unprepared students so as to inflate their organizations or the ego of the instructor.

    In your analogy (about the master's degree at your university) it does not work the same way because you don't grant the degree, the university does.

    My problem with the blog stems from the gentleman's insinuation that he knows the principals (and others connected) closely. If you were to take him at his word you would have to accept things that did not occur in the chronological order he suggests. And with details that are not accurate. Like a family friend explaining the back story of a family's falling out.

    I met Tim some years ago. He has strong opinions. His students hold him in high regard. Should he have been stripped of this rank? The real question. Has he stopped using it?
  10. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2014 4:32pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Goddels View Post
    I agree with you about rank. Once given, it can never can be taken away.

    Systematically, the bigger problem stems from the desires of an instructors to prematurely rank unprepared students so as to inflate their organizations or the ego of the instructor.

    In your analogy (about the master's degree at your university) it does not work the same way because you don't grant the degree, the university does.

    My problem with the blog stems from the gentleman's insinuation that he knows the principals (and others connected) closely. If you were to take him at his word you would have to accept things that did not occur in the chronological order he suggests. And with details that are not accurate. Like a family friend explaining the back story of a family's falling out.

    I met Tim some years ago. He has strong opinions. His students hold him in high regard. Should he have been stripped of this rank? The real question. Has he stopped using it?
    I think you and I are pretty much in the same place. My answer to both of your questions at the end are that I don't think he should have been stripped of his rank and to my understanding he has continued to use it, which I have no problem with whatsoever. Not that my opinion on the matter really counts for anything in the first place.
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