Posted On:9/08/2013 11:50pm
I did the "search" thing and found some info but nothing really answering my question...directly at least. Maybe there is no direct answer.
For real world application, which is better to study, Bjj or wrestling? Ok for example...if you have a guy who is a wrestler vs. a bjj guy in a fight (just bumping heads at a bar etc.) who would win if they are both at the same level in their sport, same weight etc.?
This question has irked me for awhile because I thought the Bjj guy would win, but I have heard a lot of sh** about how wrestlers can dominate and control even a skilled Bjj person and keep them on their back i.e. in mma so in the street this would give the wrestler the advantage. On the other hand, Bjj to me is and has always been the cream of the crop for groundfighting...and they would find a way to win. But, the part about them losing positional dominance has me questioning which art to pursue if I am looking at just pure fighting. If the wrestler can dominate the advantageous position, even if he can't submit you he can pound the living **** out of you in a real fight.
So I guess, was just wondering:
1. If a wrestler and bjj practitioner are evenly matched..experience in their field, same weight--Not so much concerned who would win in the sport arena (although know this is important for training) but who would dominate in a street fight? Would the Bjj guy be forced on his back in this situation by the wrestler??? Or could the Bjj guy mount the wrestler and realistically stay there long enough to pound the crap out of him? I know I wouldn't want to be on my back in the street for more than a few seconds if I had too..and that is the heart of my question. If Bjj is so great and can defeat a good wrestler...how the hell can he do this in a real fight if he can't control the dominant positions (mount, side-control, back)?
2. Where is the line drawn with wrestling? I know people who wrestled in middle school and high school and can't fight worth a ****. So, when people speak of "wrestling" are they speaking mainly of college wrestling?
I am just a little confused as to what direction I should take my training in...
Posted On:9/09/2013 12:34pm
1.They are both superb groundfighting arts. As you observe, they have different goals and philosophies, so, ultimately, there is little to choose between them but satellite points of the preference or predisposition of the individual, quality of a given instructor, and so on.
Self-defense isn't about winning a prolonged fight, it's about avoidance, de-escalation, and escape.
2. Why are you planning on getting into fights?
"Your body must be like a stone, your mind... like a meatloaf."
Originally Posted by strikistanian
DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
Originally Posted by Devil
Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
Posted On:9/09/2013 5:04pm
Try both, do the one you enjoy more as that is the one you will stick with longer and you will end up a better grappler.
Its also worth considering do what is "good" in your area, in my area there is no BJJ, a small wrestling club and a national standard Judo facility
It is impossible to say who would win in a street fight because there are more variable than style. In a "street" fight as there are environmental factors to add to the fact that the same situation can have more than one outcome
Posted On:9/09/2013 9:31pm
Style: Judo noob, injured guy.
Something I remember Chael Sonnen talking about in a video somewhere is the sort of wrestling that ends up effective in MMA/fighting. He learned a very takedown-heavy style and always pushed for the takedown and top control. While takedowns, scrambling, and positional control are the important things we see from wrestlers in MMA, it isn't all there is to wrestling (according to Sonnen) and there is plenty of techniques and styles of wrestling that don't lead to the kind of success we see from strong wrestlers in MMA.
The level of wrestling makes a difference of course too. A really dominant High School wrestler or a collegiate wrestler that competes at a high level is far above someone who did some wrestling in middle school. Just like an international level Judoka (like Rousey) is far removed from your average hobby club shodan.
Posted On:9/09/2013 10:04pm
Style: Getting less fat
OP: It can be difficult to find wrestling training once outside of school, but BJJ can be trained for as long as you wish.
In school, you have to make the wrestling team, and the coach will show favoritism to his best competitors. In BJJ, just show up and pay your dues. If you don't like the school, find another one.
And then there is MMA. If you can find a good club, you will get training in all areas of grappling, plus striking too.
Posted On:9/09/2013 10:28pm
Style: BJJ, wrestling
Hypothetical questions like this don't account for all the variables present in any given situation. Simplistic generalizations like the question posited ignore so many factors that they are little more than exercises in mental masturbation.
Your question is on the same level as, "Who would win, Zombie Bruce Lee or aging Chuck Norris?"
That said, dumbing it down for you, if a wrestler has good submission defense, then he/she will do well against most beginner to intermediate BJJ students. If the wrestler is ignorant regarding submissions, then somebody is going to get choked.
Posted On:9/09/2013 10:44pm
OP: Don't worry so much about street fighting though. Learning self-defense is a good thing, but if you find a good club in any style that trains with aliveness you will find yourself worrying less and less about the whole street fighting thing, and just enjoying your training.
Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
Posted On:9/10/2013 1:50am
High school wrestlers (the ones that compete hard and train hard every day) are extremely athletic and technical. College is like that but 4x more tough : ).
For the street though I'd say BJJ. Just because there are submission training... wrestlers have way better take down defence in general, scrambiling, takedowns, etc.
Train both I say! : )
Posted On:9/10/2013 2:36am
Style: BJJ, FMA, JKD, Pankration
Oh no the wrestler is going to keep the BJJ guy on his back what ever will the BJJ guy possibly do while lying down in the Guard position if only they trained for that scenario......
Either one will do you well in a bar spat but you better watch out for them aids needles and broken glass so you may want to go ahead and scrap the whole idea and look up a combination of Akdio and Wing Chun.
Posted On:9/10/2013 7:12am
Style: mma /boxing/muai thai
Better off picking what you enjoy doing more.
Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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