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  1. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2013 4:21pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Bombing **** is boring, but rhetoric is fun? You have some issues with prioritization, methinks...
    Depends who is doing the bombing and who is getting bombed. Get bombed a few more times, than we'll talk ;-)
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2013 4:30pm

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     Style: BJJ

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickybomb View Post
    Depends who is doing the bombing and who is getting bombed. Get bombed a few more times, than we'll talk ;-)
    Nah we let that happen once on one of our islands a generation ago. We didn't like it much so we built a navy and a Air Force funny thing no state actor has ever tried it again.
  3. Resonance10 is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 5:21am

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    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This was emailed to me, you may have seen it already:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	15403

    We Brits have excluded ourselves from the fun on this one it seems. Not sure if it was a vote of principle or a **** you! to the twat running this place at the moment.

    The 'red line' statement needs to be backed up or you just look like mouthboxers and we all know what we think of them. I just hope that the action taken has a real stategic effect and that the 'state actors' involved admit they are coming down on the side of the 'rebels'. Responsibility for blowback should be taken on upfront also.

    I find the politics of the region so confusing that this is my new desktop:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	15404

    Contemplation of which generally leads to this:




    **** the middle east
    There's too many problems
    They just get in the way
    We sure could live without them
    They hijack our planes
    They raise our oil prices
    We'll kill them all and have a ball
    And end their fuckin' crisis
    BEIRUT, LEBANON-Won't exist once we're done
    LIBYA, IRAN-We'll flush the bastards down the can
    SYRIANS and SHIITES-Crush their faces with our might
    Then Israel and Egypt can live in peace without these dicks---NOT!
  4. Tranquil Suit is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 1:22pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Let's be clear here as to the problem if we don't bomb syria.
    Iran and N. Korea
    Honestly if they see Syria testing us and getting away with it than the red lines we have set with them mean nothing. This is a bad very bad thing. I get being apothetic towards syria I get not wanting to spend the money. I get all of that bs.

    At the end of the day we need those two countries to know that if **** get serious target strikes on the regimes themselves is a very real and likely outcome.


    Jesus Christ, goodlun.

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  5. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 1:40pm

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     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    These statements are not mutually exclusive:
    Bombing1 > Bombing2
    Rhetoric1 > Rhetoric2
    Bombingn > Rhetoricn
    Non-nonsequitur > nonsequitur:

    (fun bombing > boring bombing) = (fun rhetoric > boring rhetoric).
  6. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 1:59pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Let's be clear here as to the problem if we don't bomb syria.
    Iran and N. Korea
    Let's be clear that what you're saying is dumb.

    Stop saying dumb things.
  7. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 2:03pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance10 View Post
    The 'red line' statement needs to be backed up or you just look like mouthboxers and we all know what we think of them.
    More dumb.
  8. Resonance10 is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 2:47pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    More dumb.
    Ha, plenty more where that came from.

    Yes I am overstating the 'red line' thing but I do think there is something in it. I would not go as far as to say Murika would look weak or incapable so much as indecisive and/or inconsistant..but your big boys and can handle it. Or maybe it will just be that Obama who looks bad.
  9. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 4:41pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have just read an interview with a Syrian immigrant. I shall try to translate it as best as I can, because I find it interesting.

    When and how did you come to Slovenia?

    My father was the first arabic student in Slovenia. He came in the year 1959 and met my mom. 10 years later they decided to go and live in Middle east. My father first took mother to visit and she liked it there, so they moved. The three children were born and we all completed the secondary school there. We were coming back every two years, so we spoke Slovanian also. At 18 we moved here. The youngest brother came in 1989.

    Why?

    Mainly to avoid serving in the military. The last years there was a big pressure on the Palestinians in form of cutting their chances for employment and such... My father was Palestine.

    How do you remember the situation in Syria?

    The life was nice, but we were prohibited to talk politics. The economical situation was relatively good. Arabs are not demanding and they are content with smaller amount of goods... The family life was way more pleasant than in Slovenia. Not because of islam, but because of different values,...

    What do you do here?

    I'm a translator. I had a job till recent, but we have crises and people are getting fired. Me included. But I'm still working in this field and my brothers also. They're both jurisdictional translators.

    Do you still have contact with relatives and friends in Syria?

    We still have contact over phone and net. But after a year after the beginning of confrontations, the crisis begun in the state, so most fled. In Syria remained uncle and some cousins. One is locked for a year, so we think he was killed. It's little chances to get out of prison alive down there.

    What's the situation there now?

    The state is non functional. Everything fell apart. All that works is army of president Bashar. Two million of refugees are registered, about 150.000 people are dead, 250.000 are in prison. I believe the actual numbers are about 20% higher. The situation is catastrophic. The infrastructure is destroyed, all depends on the government forces or rebels, the people are caught in between.

    Who are the rebels?

    The rebellion begun spontaneously between normal people. Then others came. Al quaeda, Djabhad al nusra, The muslim brotherhood all became involved, they were banned in Syria before. They are armed with confiscated weapons, to some extend the west provides more material.

    Is it possible to achieve a political solution? Can the government forces and rebels begin to negotiate?

    The president Asad has offered the political solution on the beginning of conflict, but the rebels didn't agree. But the attacks begun by government forces. the rebels didn't have any heavy weapons at the beginning - rockets, tanks. Do you know how revolution started? The kids in city of Dera wrote they want more rights and bread. The army assaulted them and the people came on streets. The army suppressed them with firearms. That the situation was getting worse our relatives also told us. There were no rights, jobs,...

    Could anybody but army be responsible for chemical assault?

    I am totally convinced, the government forces used chemical weapons. The rebels have no such capacities. They would use it if they had, but try to hit army, not people. If USA do not intervene we can expect more such attacks. Another question is, what will happen with it, if the rebels win. It could become a world's problem.

    Is there any difference for the people in who wins the war?

    If Assad wins, the situation is gonna be worse. He will try to destroy all opposition. If the rebels win at least hope remains. I can't say that for the government. We live for hope that it will get better.

    Should the west intervene?

    I support the attack, but it should be clearly defined. USA do not spread peace and democracy over world but look on their own interests. There was a lot of talking, but the west is not unified on the subject. The Americans probably strive to protect Israel. Syria will be at least 50 years back in development after attack, it will have to get in debts to rebuild over which time the Israel won't have problems.


    Would after the intervention things get better or we would witness violence on the whole new level like in Iraq?

    The Syria is also a conglomerate of nations - Kurds, Alavites, Sunis... It is much similar picture. But I think the situation should not repeat, if USA won't bring ground troops in. Also I doubt that Syrians could just talk the future through and forget all. Too much blood was spilled for that.

    What's interests has west in Syria?

    None, apart from protecting Israel probably. There's no oil, diamonds, turism,... So basically exclusively American interests. But it's also true that Syria is one of the last enclaves of Russia on the Middle east, so they try to stop the intervention. What is happening is absolutely in the interest of Israel. Besides Egypt Syria was one of the apolitically most important countries, and now it's destroyed, without any power.

    Can we draw the parallels with Egypt and Tunisia where people also rebelled against the autocratic regimes?

    I could hardly compare. There was relatively quick change with less blood. But we have a bloody fight for successors in Egypt.

    If Asad falls, won't there also be a battle for succession?

    Absolutely. But it all depends on future government and treaties among different nations. Kurds want to join with Kurds from Syria. Turks would like the access to water,...

    How do you predict the future of Syria, will it remain such as it is today?

    I doubt it. The Kurds will try to get the north, Shiites will try to get the west over Hesbolah in Lebanon, the rest will probably be split between Turkey and Iraq. If this happens there will be clashes of powers, rivalry and fight for domination.

    Why does Asad not resign?

    I think Asad remains because of Iran, who has a corridor for possible attack on Israel over Syria and Hezbollah on the south of Lebanon.

    Is it possible to export democracy in such or any other Middle eastern state?

    Probably. But gradually. Arabs were suppressed for 50 years, they are used to the stick. If they are given democracy in an instant we can expect chaos. We can see that in Egypt. They think democracy means they can do whatever they want, but you need to also listen in democracy. But I think that Arabs can gradually come to a point when true democracy can start developing.

    What future do you predict for the state?

    A hard one. The war can just go on and on, if the Americans don't intervene.

    Would you return to Syria if you had a chance?

    I wouldn't. After 24 years in Slovenia It would be hard to adapt. I wanted to visit it many times in the past but couldn't, because I deserted and would go to prison.




    There you have it first hand. Sorry for me being a dick. This finally gives me a bit better view.
  10. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2013 7:09pm

    supporting member
     

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickybomb View Post
    I have just read an interview with a Syrian immigrant. I shall try to translate it as best as I can, because I find it interesting.

    When and how did you come to Slovenia?

    My father was the first arabic student in Slovenia. He came in the year 1959 and met my mom. 10 years later they decided to go and live in Middle east. My father first took mother to visit and she liked it there, so they moved. The three children were born and we all completed the secondary school there. We were coming back every two years, so we spoke Slovanian also. At 18 we moved here. The youngest brother came in 1989.

    Why?

    Mainly to avoid serving in the military. The last years there was a big pressure on the Palestinians in form of cutting their chances for employment and such... My father was Palestine.

    How do you remember the situation in Syria?

    The life was nice, but we were prohibited to talk politics. The economical situation was relatively good. Arabs are not demanding and they are content with smaller amount of goods... The family life was way more pleasant than in Slovenia. Not because of islam, but because of different values,...

    What do you do here?

    I'm a translator. I had a job till recent, but we have crises and people are getting fired. Me included. But I'm still working in this field and my brothers also. They're both jurisdictional translators.

    Do you still have contact with relatives and friends in Syria?

    We still have contact over phone and net. But after a year after the beginning of confrontations, the crisis begun in the state, so most fled. In Syria remained uncle and some cousins. One is locked for a year, so we think he was killed. It's little chances to get out of prison alive down there.

    What's the situation there now?

    The state is non functional. Everything fell apart. All that works is army of president Bashar. Two million of refugees are registered, about 150.000 people are dead, 250.000 are in prison. I believe the actual numbers are about 20% higher. The situation is catastrophic. The infrastructure is destroyed, all depends on the government forces or rebels, the people are caught in between.

    Who are the rebels?

    The rebellion begun spontaneously between normal people. Then others came. Al quaeda, Djabhad al nusra, The muslim brotherhood all became involved, they were banned in Syria before. They are armed with confiscated weapons, to some extend the west provides more material.

    Is it possible to achieve a political solution? Can the government forces and rebels begin to negotiate?

    The president Asad has offered the political solution on the beginning of conflict, but the rebels didn't agree. But the attacks begun by government forces. the rebels didn't have any heavy weapons at the beginning - rockets, tanks. Do you know how revolution started? The kids in city of Dera wrote they want more rights and bread. The army assaulted them and the people came on streets. The army suppressed them with firearms. That the situation was getting worse our relatives also told us. There were no rights, jobs,...

    Could anybody but army be responsible for chemical assault?

    I am totally convinced, the government forces used chemical weapons. The rebels have no such capacities. They would use it if they had, but try to hit army, not people. If USA do not intervene we can expect more such attacks. Another question is, what will happen with it, if the rebels win. It could become a world's problem.

    Is there any difference for the people in who wins the war?

    If Assad wins, the situation is gonna be worse. He will try to destroy all opposition. If the rebels win at least hope remains. I can't say that for the government. We live for hope that it will get better.

    Should the west intervene?

    I support the attack, but it should be clearly defined. USA do not spread peace and democracy over world but look on their own interests. There was a lot of talking, but the west is not unified on the subject. The Americans probably strive to protect Israel. Syria will be at least 50 years back in development after attack, it will have to get in debts to rebuild over which time the Israel won't have problems.


    Would after the intervention things get better or we would witness violence on the whole new level like in Iraq?

    The Syria is also a conglomerate of nations - Kurds, Alavites, Sunis... It is much similar picture. But I think the situation should not repeat, if USA won't bring ground troops in. Also I doubt that Syrians could just talk the future through and forget all. Too much blood was spilled for that.

    What's interests has west in Syria?

    None, apart from protecting Israel probably. There's no oil, diamonds, turism,... So basically exclusively American interests. But it's also true that Syria is one of the last enclaves of Russia on the Middle east, so they try to stop the intervention. What is happening is absolutely in the interest of Israel. Besides Egypt Syria was one of the apolitically most important countries, and now it's destroyed, without any power.

    Can we draw the parallels with Egypt and Tunisia where people also rebelled against the autocratic regimes?

    I could hardly compare. There was relatively quick change with less blood. But we have a bloody fight for successors in Egypt.

    If Asad falls, won't there also be a battle for succession?

    Absolutely. But it all depends on future government and treaties among different nations. Kurds want to join with Kurds from Syria. Turks would like the access to water,...

    How do you predict the future of Syria, will it remain such as it is today?

    I doubt it. The Kurds will try to get the north, Shiites will try to get the west over Hesbolah in Lebanon, the rest will probably be split between Turkey and Iraq. If this happens there will be clashes of powers, rivalry and fight for domination.

    Why does Asad not resign?

    I think Asad remains because of Iran, who has a corridor for possible attack on Israel over Syria and Hezbollah on the south of Lebanon.

    Is it possible to export democracy in such or any other Middle eastern state?

    Probably. But gradually. Arabs were suppressed for 50 years, they are used to the stick. If they are given democracy in an instant we can expect chaos. We can see that in Egypt. They think democracy means they can do whatever they want, but you need to also listen in democracy. But I think that Arabs can gradually come to a point when true democracy can start developing.

    What future do you predict for the state?

    A hard one. The war can just go on and on, if the Americans don't intervene.

    Would you return to Syria if you had a chance?

    I wouldn't. After 24 years in Slovenia It would be hard to adapt. I wanted to visit it many times in the past but couldn't, because I deserted and would go to prison.




    There you have it first hand. Sorry for me being a dick. This finally gives me a bit better view.

    Are you by chance related to Patfromlogan?

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