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  1. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:16pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post

    Folks if you want to make good money you have to do 1 of 2 things.

    Do something other people will not do.

    Do something other people can not do.
    The billionaire status of hotel toilet cleaners has now been explained.
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:21pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me say this. I understand why what I am saying isn't very popular.
    The truth hurts
    The Kernel of Truth in what I am saying reminds us all of how insignificant we really are in the grand scheme of things. Even those of us that do well are nothing but a drop in the
    15.68 trillion $/year US alone bucket.
    Most of us don't want to think of us as the little cogs that we are in a much much much bigger machine on top of that we are cogs that can be easily replaced by other cogs some easier than others.
  3. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:31pm


     Style: Wrestle, Kickbox, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Assigning value as expressed in dollar values is heavily weighted towards those in society who already control the money though, whether or not the money they possess has anything to do with the work they've done. When you consider that true wealth is generally hereditary and the disproportionately huge percent of money (and decision making power) held by a small powerful elite, dollar value doesn't seem like such a concrete metric of the will of "society".
    Good point. I believe recent stats on just where most of the economic recovery in recent years has gone ties into that...overwhelmingly back into the pockets of the top 1% in the country. Because of course they have done the vast majority of the work, paid the most initial cost, and by God just deserve it!

    Goodlun, actually society values the hell out of what I do. Whole areas of law regulate the practice of my profession specifically, responsibility for folks like the Naval Yard Shooter will at least partially fall on my community, heads will talk and mouths will froth. Oh yes, people care a whole hell of a lot...

    They just don't want to pay much for it.

    Value to society =/= Income

    Society values the hell out of LEO's, especially when bombs are exploding and bullets flying. Pay them as much as (insert low-risk high-reward generality here)? No way.

    Value to society =/= Income

    There's a good example of your all-powerful free market theory as well...it's called The Gilded Age. Look it up. As a matter of fact, read more history in general. There is nothing new about any of your beliefs...they've all been tried before, they just don't work.
  4. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:40pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    This is certainly true. However isn't it also true that we as a society tend to value these people more? Do we not put the rich and powerful up on a pedestal? Hasn't this more or less been human nature for as far back as we can look?


    Lets me clarify I am interested in money earned not inherited nor wealth accumulated.
    In fact its not about wealth at all. Being miserly doesn't make you a better citizen. The labors you put forth though do. Now though labors may be investing/trading/ and the what not. Same thing I wouldn't say a lottery winner is of particular value to society yet they would of course be wealthy for at least a short period of time. Same way I am not going to diminish a Dr. that does Drs without boarders. That Dr. is not earning a lot of money but we do have a pretty good idea of what that time is actually worth.



    This also is certainly true. Yet we let them rule. At the end of the day we as a society allow the inequalities. There are a number of things we can try from civil disobedience to armed revolt. That 1% rules because we allow them to. Cause in the end we just are not that uncomfortable and it would be too inconvenient to upset the status quo.

    Jesus Christ, you're an abused wife blaming herself for being punched!

    But Goodlun, what inequalities? I thought the free market did a pretty good job of balancing the scales?
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:46pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post

    Goodlun, actually society values the hell out of what I do.
    Prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    They just don't want to pay much for it.
    Here is my evidence that they don't value it that much all they do is pay it lip service. They are not willing to make the sacrifice out of their own pockets to make it happen. That doesn't sound like they really value it now does it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    Society values the hell out of LEO's,
    HA! Its cute you say that. Where is the proof though? Where are the people lining up to pay more taxes so that we can A have more cops and B pay them better. Its cool to say you value something but when your not willing to actually put forth the effort for it you don't really value it. If we are not willing to put worth our hard earned dollars for them we don't really value them now do we.

    Also not every cop is low paid. Their are plenty of cities where a LEO makes decent living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    your beliefs...they've all been tried before, they just don't work.
    You seem to be confused here. I am just using a convenient way to quantify something that most people don't want to quantify it makes them uneasy.
    We all know that not everyone is of equal value to society.
    The bomb shelter or space shuttle thought experiments prove this.
    Where you have to decide which 10 people you are going to save from Armageddon. Let me tell you what the hamburger flippers are not at the top of the list.
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 12:51pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    Jesus Christ, you're an abused wife blaming herself for being punched!
    Wow that is a poor analogy. The housing bubble was caused by people trying to get rich fast and by living outside of their means. They spent the money yet its some how only the bankers faults. How about some personal fucking responsibility. You know what yes I blame the idiots who get stung by a scorpion who put their hand in the scorpion jar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    But Goodlun, what inequalities? I thought the free market did a pretty good job of balancing the scales?
    I never said their isn't any inequalities you have me mistaken for someone who thinks everyone is equal. I don't. People are inherently unequal. I say the free-market is a good way to show the value society places on people. I never claimed it is good at making everyone equal. **** far from it. I say its the fairest way to pass out the wealth through out a society based on ones contributions to it.

    Maybe you should actually try and learn my platform before you get indignant about it.
  7. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 1:00pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Prove it."

    Okay, what metric shall we use? Can't be just income, you already mentioned Drs without borders as something of value with low income, and trust fund babies as high income, low value, so you must have some other criteria. Enlighten me.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 1:14pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keslet View Post
    "Prove it."

    Okay, what metric shall we use? Can't be just income, you already mentioned Drs without borders as something of value with low income, and trust fund babies as high income, low value, so you must have some other criteria. Enlighten me.
    You are pretty freaking dense no wonder why your of little value to society.
    You seem to have a hard time making fine distinctions about things.
    I said ability to generate money.
    This isn't == to income nor is == to wealth accumulated.
    The Dr. working for Dr.s w/o boarders doing the same job that society values one that society typically pays out the nose for. So in the case of Dr's w/o boarders he is still putting back into society the same worth.
    The trust fund baby doesn't generate money it lives off of money that was generated by someone else. They may get some interest and that trust fund money being invested does help society but honestly these trust fund babies are not living as high on the hog off of interest as we want to pretend.

    Here is thing what you do is paid for directly by society via taxes. Its hard to make an argument that society values you more than what its willing to sacrifice for you. They maybe willing to pat you on your back and blow smoke up your ass but at the end of the day they are only willing to give up a very small amount of their resources for what you do.
  9. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 1:22pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Here is thing what you do is paid for directly by society via taxes. Its hard to make an argument that society values you more than what its willing to sacrifice for you. They maybe willing to pat you on your back and blow smoke up your ass but at the end of the day they are only willing to give up a very small amount of their resources for what you do.
    But government salaries are decided by bureaucracy, not democracy. Their dollar value wasn't determined by asking everyone in society what they should be paid, it was determined by some sort of finance person behind a desk, by figuring out the smallest amount that somebody would apply and stick around for.
  10. Keslet is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2013 1:23pm


     Style: Wrestle, Kickbox, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Wow that is a poor analogy. The housing bubble was caused by people trying to get rich fast and by living outside of their means. They spent the money yet its some how only the bankers faults. How about some personal fucking responsibility. You know what yes I blame the idiots who get stung by a scorpion who put their hand in the scorpion jar.


    I never said their isn't any inequalities you have me mistaken for someone who thinks everyone is equal. I don't. People are inherently unequal. I say the free-market is a good way to show the value society places on people. I never claimed it is good at making everyone equal. **** far from it. I say its the fairest way to pass out the wealth through out a society based on ones contributions to it.

    Maybe you should actually try and learn my platform before you get indignant about it.
    Goodlun, I'm trying to respond to your platform, but you're all over the place! You were much more respectful and coherent to PL a few posts back, but not consistent.

    You: Yet we allow them to rule. At the end of the day we as a society allow the inequalities...we are just not that uncomfortable...too inconvenient to upset the status quo.
    Me: Christ, that sounds like a rationalization for an abusive relationship!
    You: No it's not, housing bubble/personal responsibility!

    But okay, you have convinced me...the free market influences income so well that annual potential income is a fair and reasonable measure of human value.

    Honey Boo Boo is 10x the human being you will ever be.

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