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  1. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 9:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Actually the first isn't possible either. You still have to be registered IBJJF affiliate to compete in their brown belt division.
    Like I said above, he can join BJJ Globetrotters for $0.
  2. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 9:59am

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    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, to me it seems like exposing this type of issue is right in line with the Bullshido mission.

    But, I must admit I'm a little confused. This is hard to follow for me and I'm sure for others who aren't familiar with IBJJF politics.

    Could somebody in the know put together a list of bullet points or some type of summary outlining the problems? It might make it easier for us regular Joes to get behind. It seems like a problem that should be addressed.
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 10:01am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    ok so can he compete at purple? my point remains the same, if he competes at the highest belt they recognize, and wins over and over, they should have to let him compete at brown or black. to every pissed off coach and competitor, his response can be the same "take it up with the IBJJF, they won't let me compete at a higher rank"
    So he can't compete.

    As for the Globtrotter business I wouldn't know. I have never heard of them.

    I don't really care about the IBJJF; I actually don't like them. I don't like their rules, I don't like their politics, and I don't care for the business practices. I support the other tournaments with promoters that actually look out for the competitors. Where the tournaments are actually open. Where it matters more about your skill on the mat than the school you're affiliated with.

    It just sucked when my students want to compete in a IBJJF "Open" tournament and I have to tell them that I'm not an IBJJF affiliated so they can't compete. I took my daughter to an Open Judo tournament. Nobody asked for my affiliation. That's an open tournament. AAU tournament you have to get their insurance. This is not what the IBJJF is doing. If they want to just say this is an IBJJF tournament "World Champion, Mundials" etc. That's fine but it's not open and IMO not even a World Championship unless you let everybody compete.
  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 10:27am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    So, to me it seems like exposing this type of issue is right in line with the Bullshido mission.

    But, I must admit I'm a little confused. This is hard to follow for me and I'm sure for others who aren't familiar with IBJJF politics.

    Could somebody in the know put together a list of bullet points or some type of summary outlining the problems? It might make it easier for us regular Joes to get behind. It seems like a problem that should be addressed.
    i agree, this is exactly the sort of thing bullshido exists to fight, and this is quite confusing. i also see three distinct issues here that are both part of "the villan's" problem.

    1) the sale of belts by legit instructors to unqualified people - this is very hard to fight, and has plagued other arts as well. the only solution to this is to have truly open tournaments and judge people by their successes and those of their students. this works OK for judo, as while there are frauds out there with purchased belts, tournaments usually show what's up. in the end *most* judo black belts have the skills they claim, so there is still validity to the rank.

    2) extortion of money from *qualified* people in order to attain rank - this is really shady, and seems like the kind of thing that *can* be dealt with by shining a bight light on the practice and making a lot of noise. someone needs to get caught with video/audio evidence and made an example of.

    3) running "open" tournaments that are not really open, and using them as a way to enforce the extortion above.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  5. The Villain is offline

    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 10:47am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    ok so can he compete at purple? my point remains the same, if he competes at the highest belt they recognize, and wins over and over, they should have to let him compete at brown or black. to every pissed off coach and competitor, his response can be the same "take it up with the IBJJF, they won't let me compete at a higher rank"
    Actually, when you do that, they strip you of your medals too. Google "Sam Osman" and read the story for yourself. He entered the IBJJF and lost both his rank AND his medal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i agree, this is exactly the sort of thing bullshido exists to fight, and this is quite confusing. i also see three distinct issues here that are both part of "the villan's" problem.

    1) the sale of belts by legit instructors to unqualified people - this is very hard to fight, and has plagued other arts as well. the only solution to this is to have truly open tournaments and judge people by their successes and those of their students. this works OK for judo, as while there are frauds out there with purchased belts, tournaments usually show what's up. in the end *most* judo black belts have the skills they claim, so there is still validity to the rank.

    2) extortion of money from *qualified* people in order to attain rank - this is really shady, and seems like the kind of thing that *can* be dealt with by shining a bight light on the practice and making a lot of noise. someone needs to get caught with video/audio evidence and made an example of.

    3) running "open" tournaments that are not really open, and using them as a way to enforce the extortion above.
    Essentially, yes. That about sums it up.
  6. The Villain is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2013 11:11am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The ultimate problem is that in exchange for rank, these people are asking for things that they have no rights to and that are unrelated to my progression in the art of Brazilian Jiujitsu. 2,000 dollars has nothing to do with my progress in the art. The name of my team has nothing to do with my progress in the art. The business arrangement between my employer and is not something that they're entitled to examine or to control. I do business honestly and ethically and they have no rights to my assets or earnings. Respect and recognition of the rank I've earned is not a service that needs to be purchased. Respect is basic.

    As for Globetrotters, why should I join another team? Why should I sign my students over to another instructor? Why should I go back a belt? Why should I have my rank FROZEN at brown? Because I didn't pay Carlos Gracie Jr his bribe? But 2k and all of a sudden I'm a black belt? That's how rank works?

    We're getting reports from all over the world of massive belt sales, rank freezes, demotions, and cash grabs. The reason why they're forcing the registration of black and brown belts is to gain access to the assets of independent businessmen.
  7. sweats is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2013 9:54am


     Style: Shotokan & BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's time for a formal article/write up on the IBJJF that documents their practices and some of the incidents alluded to above.
  8. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 4:05pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i'm trying to get my head around this, and where it goes crazy, by comparing it to a similar sport that i know, judo...

    it seems normal for competitors and schools to be required to be members of a regulatory organization (here in the US a dojo needs to be a member of USJF/USJA and USA Judo to be able to send competitors to competitions.) this seems to be an insurance thing for the most part and perhaps about quality control of instruction, and the membership fees are relatively low for the competitor (not entirely sure about the costs of membership for the dojo.) however this is *not* a franchise situation and it doesn't assign the wins from a small team to a larger one.

    in judo, a competitor with a black belt that is recognized by the NGB can compete in any event regardless of dojo affiliation. to deny a *legitimately ranked* competitor based on affiliation or lack of affiliation seems transparently biased and designed to drive profits only.

    in judo, a properly ranked instructor can register a dojo with the NGB, and enter his students in competitions, there is no requirement to be a part of a larger dojo. there is no expectation that competitors will step aside for other competitors (although it does happen, this is up to the competitors and their coaches.)

    i have to say, that from the perspective of a judo practitioner, this IBJJF business seems very off to me, i would love to hear their explanations of these policies.
    The IBJJF is not a NGB. It is a privately owned and decidedly for profit business entity. If BJJ is going to be regulated on a national and international level, it desperately needs the job to be done by a not for profit and unbiased NGB.

    As it stands, the head of the IBJJF is also the head owner of the largest affiliation gym in the sport, Gracie Barra. Talk about a conflict of interest.
  9. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 7:25pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain View Post
    I disagree. I'm not gonna bother arguing it. Instead I'll let the membership take a look and decide for themselves whether or not the info is legit. When the info went live the first time it was a major blow to the federation. It also saved my job. My primary issue with the federation is that their policies destroy both jobs and reputations. People are being hurt for real by this scam and I believe it's our duty to stop them. That being said, I'll be posting an updated version tonight.
    Your problems with the IBJJF are not in dispute. Based on your screen captures, you have a solid case against them. It was the lack of sourcing on a few items in the article that was the problem.

    Honestly J, we all know you are in the right. You just need to document a few things to protect both yourself and the website from lawyers.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 7:38pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Your problems with the IBJJF are not in dispute. Based on your screen captures, you have a solid case against them. It was the lack of sourcing on a few items in the article that was the problem.

    Honestly J, we all know you are in the right. You just need to document a few things to protect both yourself and the website from lawyers.
    I hope that this does go viral again but (and this is to Villain) why give them any ammo?
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