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  1. dwkfym is offline
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    Yours truly

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2013 4:57am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    With our guys...when we see that their groups are very tight we push them to go faster.


    When it comes to shooting well faster Id say "it depends" (as I do with most things). Trigger reset and getting back on target after recoil (or transitioning to another target) and shooting a moving target while you are moving are things that you have to do to get good at.


    All shooting should start with the fundamentals and all training should incorporate "warm-ups" with fundamentals (IMO), but "accuracy" is sort of a fluid concept against the living.
    I like this.

    There is a saying, even in competition practical shooting. If you are making 100% of your hits, you aren't going fast enough or pushing yourself. Generally if you make 90% of your hits (in the 0 down area or A-zone in USPSA), you are doing it right.

    But i think every good shooter needs to know how to group well in slow fire. Fundamentals.. its like martial arts. If you want to get really good, you really should have fundamentals. But for LEOs and some professionals, it might be important to just get 'good enough' very quickly. Its really not the biggest part of their job, is it? Probably a bit different for SWAT/Tactical Rifle Team guys though.

    To elaborate on Tgace's mentioning of some fundamental concepts.. transistioning between targets involves things like how your eyeballs are just before getting the gun on target, how you have to slow down your gun's movements BEFORE it gets to your next target (you'll overshoot it if you don't), little subtle things like that.

    I don't really have useful input on trigger, trigger reset and stuff with handguns. The way I shoot a pistol is a good but rough solution to it all. I trigger-slap (ain't nuthin' wrong with that, as long as you don't jerk the pistol).


    Whats actually been bothering me is small local departments and their sniper teams. Crap optics, even worse qualificiations.. basically taking the best rifle shooter in the department and just getting him to make 1-2" hits at 100 yards, and calling it quits. No instruction on zeroing rifle at different ranges, how to account for wind and other factors.. and questionable ability for their optics to hold zero.
    Last edited by dwkfym; 8/14/2013 5:17am at .
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  2. tgace is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2013 10:47am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    Whats actually been bothering me is small local departments and their sniper teams. Crap optics, even worse qualificiations.. basically taking the best rifle shooter in the department and just getting him to make 1-2" hits at 100 yards, and calling it quits. No instruction on zeroing rifle at different ranges, how to account for wind and other factors.. and questionable ability for their optics to hold zero.
    SWAT Sniper Teams can be very location dependent in regards to training. Where I live, wasting too much time training to take 300+ yard shots would not be smart. If we lived in Montana that could be an entirely different story. Our guys do go out to long range facilities but the bulk of suburban shots are going to be closer to 100 yards than 300. What my guys really need to do is practice more shooting through glass...
  3. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2013 7:10pm


     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    SWAT Sniper Teams can be very location dependent in regards to training. Where I live, wasting too much time training to take 300+ yard shots would not be smart. If we lived in Montana that could be an entirely different story. Our guys do go out to long range facilities but the bulk of suburban shots are going to be closer to 100 yards than 300. What my guys really need to do is practice more shooting through glass...
    You know, it was the biggest battle in the world to fight the old school mentality at our department in regards to the Police Sniper function. We have been through the "gotta have a 50 BMG" and the "we gotta get better at shooting 10,000 yards" with some of the ill-informed members of the department. Within the past few years, I have been able to get hooked into the Snipercraft method of police sniper shooting, which is...Strong Base, Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, Breathing, and Trigger Control. It is the same exact **** that people have been taught since they were kids shooting cans. The average sniper involved shooting is at 53 yard (according to the American Sniper Association, who collects live data from police snipers and agencies). Although a sniper should be ready for a distance shot, they need to come back to reality. Put a Nightforce scope on a good .308 and put good PEOPLE SHOOTING rounds into the rifle and practice the fundamentals of SHOOTING.

    Final thought for ANY shooting, not just sniper shooting...if a person wants to shoot fast, they have to start by crawling. tgace is dead on with his analysis. Shoot only as fast as you can accurately and reliably hit something and then speed it up and move further. If you can not shoot accurately and reliably at the new speed, swallow your freaking pride (impossible for some LEO's) and start over.
  4. atheistmantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2013 4:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tang Soo Don't Retired

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There it is folks. I agree with TexJohn. You take your time with shooting. Fundamentals first. Take it up a notch in speed slowly. And most important, be patient with yourself.
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