232772 Bullies, 3511 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 21
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 12 3 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. wetware is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    1,132

    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 1:32pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    10
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is kinda my area and I have access to the actual study, so I'll try to deal with a couple specific things that have been noted and then go off on my general complaints.

    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    That's the first thing I thought. Even with before/after tests, IQ is so murky, I don't know how you could claim conclusive results.

    For example, IQ compares one to one's peers. Fine, this keeps youngsters from being categorized as deficient. Well, if your development plateaus early, you fall behind your peers, you get into fights because you're not socializing properly, and your IQ tests lower.

    They're going to have to demonstrate physical evidence of brain injury to prove anything, IMO.
    It's not so much that IQ drops. IQ tests are renormed every so often to keep the mean at 100 and (against all personal observations) IQ has been trudging upwards with every successive generation, so older people perform under par on the newer tests. So it doesn't keep the youngsters from looking deficient. It ends up making us older folks look deficient if we take the newer tests.
    It's called the Flynn Effect, and wikipedia has a pretty decent write up on it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

    They don't show any evidence of brain injury, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I'd like to go on record folks that "if" you actually took a real IQ test it would take between 3-5 hours to complete. It consist of several different areas of exams and takes a few days to calculate the results. Anything else and you took a novelty test. In order for these facts to hold true. You would have to do a proper IQ test on a subject, have that subject get hit in the head a few times over a few years and recalculate that IQ test weighing in all factors that could corrupt the outcome.

    So yeah.
    There's some truth to that. What they took was a short version of the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test- Revised and they did take it twice, at least. I don't know how this short version stacks up against the long version for this specific test: some of the abbreviated tests are actually pretty close to the long version while others just... aren't.

    OK... on to my complaints. First of all, it's a longitudinal study and Omega is right: this isn't an experiment so they can't really make a causal claim, but even the authors of the paper do. They're criminologists, it seems, and not psychologists and frankly I don't know what they're taught is appropriate methodology for making claims of causation from a correlation, but everyone around here knows the chant so I won't dwell on that too much more than to say that there's at least two possible alternative interpretations of the data: The first is stupid people get into more fights, thus increasing their chances of injury. The second is that stupid people are more likely to be "seriously injured" in fights. I'm leaning toward the former.

    My second problem with this study is methodological and related to the causal claims... I can't tell for certain from what's presented in the study, but it looks like what they did was take the different "serious injury" groups from the 3rd data collection and compare them to the average from the first data collection, which if there are initial differences in IQ this would conceal them. The better way to do it if they want stronger causal evidence would be subdivide all the data at the beginning by injury group and then compare the changes within groups and then compare to the averages. It would have been easy to do and would have taken care of this question from the start, but I don't see it addressed. This makes me suspicious.

    Third, they never define what a "serious injury" is and the data is self-report and even if they did the average IQ difference between one "serious" injury group and the next is extremely small: a 0.2 drop in IQ per serious injury in one year for females and less than a .1 drop for males. Surely physiological differences between males and females account for this, right? Wrong. Social pressures for females not to get into physical altercations are much higher than for males.
    Note: OK, I see what they did. They're claiming a 1.62 loss per fight in a year for males and a 3.02 point loss per fight for females. I was looking at data presented at the end on a graph that's in standard deviations from the mean. Fuckers need to learn to label their god-damn y-axis.

    Fourth problem. What did they control for? Age, socioeconomic status, race and gender. That's nice of them and all, but I want information on things like playing other contact sports, drug use and skipping school, for example.

    So as far as I can tell this study is poorly designed, poorly executed and makes claims that it cannot back up.
    Last edited by wetware; 7/31/2013 1:40pm at .
  2. RurikGreenwulf is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ROU
    Posts
    1,239

    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 1:41pm


     Style: Humbleness

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you stare at the picture long enough it becomes gay dancing

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	130729132914.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	36.3 KB 
ID:	15262


    Maybe other factors like drug abuse could affect the street fighters IQ
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    8,587

    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 2:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Always be skeptical of a study that also mentions an agenda to go with it. Note the agenda associated with this paper:

    The findings highlight the importance of schools and communities developing policies aimed at limiting injuries suffered during adolescence whether through fighting, bullying or contact sports, Schwartz said.
    Scholars. Sheesh.

    Let's hear about the IQ drops associated with football tackles, or my favorite teen injury: falling from the top of the pyramid.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/31/2013 2:44pm at .
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    8,587

    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 2:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: 

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IT'S A 50 IQ MINUS

  5. ermghoti is offline
    ermghoti's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    OW, MY KNEE
    Posts
    2,344

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 7:43am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    It's not so much that IQ drops.
    Oh, I didn't mean that IQ inevitably drops, I meant that in the event that a developing child's cognitive abilities begin to plateau early, that child's IQ would be lower upon a later retesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
  6. wetware is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    1,132

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 12:54pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah! I'm with you now. My bad.
  7. Southpaw is offline
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,925

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 1:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's where the logic in this study falls apart:

    If getting punched in the head = lower IQ...it stands to reason that people who are better able to maintain their intelligence do not train in arts that include regular punches to the head.

    We know that 99.5% of Wing Chun schools basically have no contact, and thus, are likely to have less people whose IQ are being negatively affected by being punched in the head.

    However, we also know, that a seemingly large majority of people who train Wing Chun clearly have some type of low-IQ-related disorder, as they have chosen to train a martial art that has, to an incredible extent, removed any semblance of being functionally martial.

    So...how is it, that so many people who are taking such good care of their brains, can be so stupid?

    I give you this quandary Bullshido. Please feel free to discuss.
  8. ermghoti is offline
    ermghoti's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    OW, MY KNEE
    Posts
    2,344

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Here's where the logic in this study falls apart:

    If getting punched in the head = lower IQ...it stands to reason that people who are better able to maintain their intelligence do not train in arts that include regular punches to the head.

    We know that 99.5% of Wing Chun schools basically have no contact, and thus, are likely to have less people whose IQ are being negatively affected by being punched in the head.

    However, we also know, that a seemingly large majority of people who train Wing Chun clearly have some type of low-IQ-related disorder, as they have chosen to train a martial art that has, to an incredible extent, removed any semblance of being functionally martial.

    So...how is it, that so many people who are taking such good care of their brains, can be so stupid?

    I give you this quandary Bullshido. Please feel free to discuss.
    Knowing enough to not get punched in the head>getting punched in the head>pretending that FOOMFOOMFOOM keeps one from getting punched in the head.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
  9. crappler is offline
    crappler's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    1,747

    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 11:33am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As someone mentioned previously, the IQ test is such a murky measure of "intelligence" (whatever the hell that is) it's virtually useless. It's like looking at a big, strong, person and saying that they are the best athlete. At what?
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  10. karma2343 is online now

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Vista, CA
    Posts
    628

    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 1:23pm


     Style: Judo noob, heavy bag

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, not to mention the cultural biases that also come with an IQ test. There is actually a lot of academic literature about why IQ tests/IQ scores aren't that great of a measure of intelligence.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 12 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.