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  1. tgace is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Jun 2005
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    Western New York
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2013 10:27pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TexJohn View Post
    He is innocent until proven guilty.....but it looks as if there was a **** up. I wasn't there, I can not Monday morning the whole thing, so I wont try. However, I find the reaction of the other officers to the gunshots fairly telling.
    I cant say much more than that...

    We are taught a priority of life. Hostages, innocent persons, officers then suspects. Even though suspects are at the end they are still a priority. We only "use deadly force" (ie kill) when necessary. If no hostage, innocent person or offiicer is facing a reasonable threat to their person you don't just shoot.

    Not implying that's what happened here...I have no first hand info. But some signs are present....
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2013 10:12am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Question for the LEOs: what's your take on "officer assisted suicides"? Situations where someone is taking intentionally dangerous actions that will lead to them being shot by law enforcement. If someone wants you to shoot them and may be endangering others, do you just shoot them and sleep comfortably, or do you do whatever you can to talk down or subdue them with the understanding that suicidal thoughts are in-the-moment events and they may not be suicidal the next morning if they live? Obviously every situation is different (weapons, hostages, actions etc), but I'd like some LE perspective. Do you shoot at a guy who's "asking for it"?
  3. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2013 6:12pm


     Style: Judo

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Question for the LEOs: what's your take on "officer assisted suicides"? Situations where someone is taking intentionally dangerous actions that will lead to them being shot by law enforcement. If someone wants you to shoot them and may be endangering others, do you just shoot them and sleep comfortably, or do you do whatever you can to talk down or subdue them with the understanding that suicidal thoughts are in-the-moment events and they may not be suicidal the next morning if they live? Obviously every situation is different (weapons, hostages, actions etc), but I'd like some LE perspective. Do you shoot at a guy who's "asking for it"?
    I can only speak from personal experience on this, when we are faced with this kind of crap the natural reaction is to keep it in a nice neat box, ie talk to them until more folks arrive, then talk to them some more, and take the person for a psyc eval once they give up. The problem is that people are strange critters and no two situations are the same. Long story short...if the person is doing something that could hurt somebody right now or in the near future we have to take action. If they are contained and nobody is in imminent danger we are supposed to wait and talk, but be prepared to act.

    In this case, it appears as if there was plenty of cops to contain and there was no obvious need for deadly force. Did the guy want to die? Who knows? From the video and internet information alone, they were in less lethal range (beanbag) and were in the process of blocking the bus off. They appeared to have a good reactionary gap...I don't know what the guys motivation was to shoot and neither does anyone else.

    As far as sleeping easy, no.
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