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  1. Ungjaevel is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2013 1:52pm

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     Style: BJJ & Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Progressing when you're at the top

    Because of some unfortunate circumstances, my instructor ended up leaving the gym where I train BJJ a few months ago. This is the only place where I can feasibly train given my schedule, so going somewhere else isn't an option that will realistically allow me to train.

    My issue is this: I'm one of three purple belts who train regularly and the other two are much more MMA focused than I am. Therefore, the amount of time I get to spend rolling with people who are my level or higher is very limited. I'm writing to see if Bullies at large have any advice on how best to continue improving given the less than ideal circumstance.

    I already work on allowing less skilled people take superior positions and work from there, so I'm wondering if anyone has advice beyond that.

    Thanks!
  2. Mr.Miyagi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 2:25am


     Style: BJJ/Zumba

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ungjaevel View Post
    Because of some unfortunate circumstances, my instructor ended up leaving the gym where I train BJJ a few months ago. This is the only place where I can feasibly train given my schedule, so going somewhere else isn't an option that will realistically allow me to train.

    My issue is this: I'm one of three purple belts who train regularly and the other two are much more MMA focused than I am. Therefore, the amount of time I get to spend rolling with people who are my level or higher is very limited. I'm writing to see if Bullies at large have any advice on how best to continue improving given the less than ideal circumstance.

    I already work on allowing less skilled people take superior positions and work from there, so I'm wondering if anyone has advice beyond that.

    Thanks!
    Some thoughts from a newly minted Purple:
    - Is it possible to coax some other same/higher skilled peeps to come roll with you at open mats? Or if not at your gym, can you go to them at a time that suits?

    - Potentially read your comment in a more negative way than you possibly intended: I've read mixed things about 'letting' less skilled people take superior positions outside the start of a roll, or specific learning style of rolling—E.g. in a general roll they buck and roll you from mount and instead of posting you allow them to roll you off to work from guard etc—as it begins to diminish your "urgency" or "I shouldn't allow this" mind-set in your general rolling and will impact your competitive rolling and rolling in general.

    - Outside of just rolling, you could work on specific drill, reactionary, timing, urgency based "in the hole" items, pass from closed to mount, or sub, and need to do this before they re-guard/sweep/sub you. Speed of entry in submissions for certain attacks you're working on, and drill along the attack and setup line for the submission or sweep?


    Sorry, I don't have anything of value to add, but I've been really curious about similar things with thought experiments about hitting skill caps at clubs etc (I'm no where near anything like this myself, have just been thinking about smaller gyms and how they handle it):
    E.g. what do you do when you don't have better than you or same level as you peeps to roll against to test your skill? Do you have to move on?
    Daniel: I don't know if I know enough karate.

    Miyagi: Feeling correct.

    Daniel: You sure know how to make a guy feel confident.

    Miyagi: You trust the quality of what you know, not quantity.
  3. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 8:18am


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Our coach has this issue. He drives 300ks every weekend to train with someone better.

    Otherwise. we do gauntlets which is a frssh guy every 30 seconds or so.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
  4. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 10:56am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had the same problem for many years in Judo. It's tough.

    Some good ideas have been posted already.

    What I did was work on my weakest aspects...opposite side throwing in Judo is one area to work on.

    On the ground, I would tell myself "no armbars", as I was much better at them than chokes. So I would not armbar anyone. I'd still use them to set up a choke, though. If I wanted to make it really hard on myself I'd just not do them (armbars) at all. Anyway, that's the concept.

    I would also (on the ground) not use my hands...in that I would not grasp the jacket or pants...so "no grabbing). The standard "put yourself in a bad position and work out of it is useful, but after a while I tended to get kinda lazy and when I would get work with someone at my skill level, I'd end up in a world of pain...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. Mr.Miyagi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 11:51pm


     Style: BJJ/Zumba

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I've had the same problem for many years in Judo. It's tough.

    Some good ideas have been posted already.

    What I did was work on my weakest aspects...opposite side throwing in Judo is one area to work on.

    On the ground, I would tell myself "no armbars", as I was much better at them than chokes. So I would not armbar anyone. I'd still use them to set up a choke, though. If I wanted to make it really hard on myself I'd just not do them (armbars) at all. Anyway, that's the concept.

    I would also (on the ground) not use my hands...in that I would not grasp the jacket or pants...so "no grabbing). The standard "put yourself in a bad position and work out of it is useful, but after a while I tended to get kinda lazy and when I would get work with someone at my skill level, I'd end up in a world of pain...
    That last part, BKR, is really what I was trying to communicate in my post :).

    Also great idea about focused restrictions, I was listening to a black belt speak about this stuff, I've forgotten whom it was, in essence they said: for their black belts they would force them each month to focus on only a single submission, no other submissions were allowed, only the selected one and this would then force you to enter and find entries that specifically favoured the success of that submission.

    Thought it was a pretty cool way to do really focused trianing to move forward.
    Daniel: I don't know if I know enough karate.

    Miyagi: Feeling correct.

    Daniel: You sure know how to make a guy feel confident.

    Miyagi: You trust the quality of what you know, not quantity.
  6. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 10:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I got very good at armbars at one point. Not just Juji Gatame and Ude Garami, but all the variations on straight armbars, from odd angles, even what you call Omo Plata in BJJ (Ashi Sankanku Garami in Judo). So my coach told me "chokes only" for a month or so. I never got as good at chokes but I got better.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. Beatdown Richie is offline
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    game dog

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 11:56am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My coach is in the same position. He uses the "focus on a single technique" method as well, and he tells people what to watch out for: "Okay, I'm going to do kneebars." And then he does kneebars, and we try to stop him.
    He also makes regular trips (three or four weeks) to train with world-class instructors (Saulo, Lovato).
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  8. Ungjaevel is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 3:43pm

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     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey thanks all! Some really helpful stuff in here, particularly in regards to limiting the scope of training and committing to focus on hitting my weaknesses when I'm rolling with less skilled jiteiros!

    If any of you all are interested, I found this article to provide some interesting perspective on the topic:

    http://www.shogunhq.com/2008/03/game...cision-to.html

    @Mr.Miyagi: what you mentioned gets at my main concern with sparring "in the hole" with less skilled people. I don't want to get in the habit of letting people pass my guard so I can practice my skills on the bottom of sidemount, for example, because I'm afraid that will make me lazy about playing guard well in the long run.

    I think a better method might be starting out in a bad position rather than starting on my knees and letting them get there. That way I won't build the bad habit of letting them get there and then working. Thoughts?
  9. Grey Owl is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 7:57am


     Style: Karate, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know this is a highly moderated forum so I apologise beforehand if this doesn't belong. However I thought I would share this as my coach was European Champion with only us mere mortals to spar with for his preparation.

    My instructor was very isolated when he started coaching us and he often practised sparring with a fresh opponent every minute for ten minutes. The set up is that he is not warned when the minute is up. The next guy just 'pounces' so if he has top position with his current opponent the next can immediately jump on his back when it is 'his minute'.

    We often still use this for pre-comp training as we have found it useful in creating a little extra urgency and pressure as well as being useful for developing stamina.
  10. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 11:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=Ungjaevel;2792216]Hey thanks all! Some really helpful stuff in here, particularly in regards to limiting the scope of training and committing to focus on hitting my weaknesses when I'm rolling with less skilled jiteiros!

    If any of you all are interested, I found this article to provide some interesting perspective on the topic:

    http://www.shogunhq.com/2008/03/game...cision-to.html

    @Mr.Miyagi: what you mentioned gets at my main concern with sparring "in the hole" with less skilled people. I don't want to get in the habit of letting people pass my guard so I can practice my skills on the bottom of sidemount, for example, because I'm afraid that will make me lazy about playing guard well in the long run.

    I think a better method might be starting out in a bad position rather than starting on my knees and letting them get there. That way I won't build the bad habit of letting them get there and then working. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

    I agree it would be better to start out in a "bad" position than to let them pass or do whatever to get you there. I could see some use for letting a "bad" position develop in a dynamic drill and then recovering or taking advantage of an opening that develops, but that would be very specific type of drilling.

    It's hard for instructors to keep their skills up unless they have access to equal or higher level people, or, can attend another class/school where they have no teaching responsibilities. Believe me, I know this from decades of personal experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Owl View Post
    I know this is a highly moderated forum so I apologise beforehand if this doesn't belong. However I thought I would share this as my coach was European Champion with only us mere mortals to spar with for his preparation.

    My instructor was very isolated when he started coaching us and he often practised sparring with a fresh opponent every minute for ten minutes. The set up is that he is not warned when the minute is up. The next guy just 'pounces' so if he has top position with his current opponent the next can immediately jump on his back when it is 'his minute'.

    We often still use this for pre-comp training as we have found it useful in creating a little extra urgency and pressure as well as being useful for developing stamina.
    We call that "shark bait" drill in Judo. Little kids love to gang up on seniors, LOL.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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