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  1. Arkansan is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 10:49pm


     Style: Boxing, JKDish something

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sonofabitch that looked like it fucked something up. So I guess the Bronco Kick is validated now huh? I always suspected **** stomping an already downed mans head in might be effective *takes notes*
  2. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/04/2013 2:53am


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    As a side the extra violence to the alpha males seemed to generate a response rather than deter one. (another thread I know.

    So let have some sakuraba instead.



    He was a bit mad keen for passing guard with jumping kicks.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
  3. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2013 3:53pm


     Style: Kickboxing/MuaiThai (new)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    As a side the extra violence to the alpha males seemed to generate a response rather than deter one. (another thread I know.

    So let have some sakuraba instead.

    He was a bit mad keen for passing guard with jumping kicks.
    What is with that kick - it always seems to knock them sideways / over but I can't tell if it's the kick doing that or if it's just the good timing of the kick and the fact the opponent isn't expecting it.
  4. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2013 6:04pm


     Style: Kickboxing/MuaiThai (new)

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoscant View Post
    What is with that kick - it always seems to knock them sideways / over but I can't tell if it's the kick doing that or if it's just the good timing of the kick and the fact the opponent isn't expecting it.

    A recent addition; my Brother does WW-II re-enactment so I decided to test out this 'shin scraping' thing. Unfortunately he's a very big guy (6'4" same as me; but almost 20kg heavier than myself) so it worked somewhat.

    First I had him try it with bare feet. Then with sneakers. And finally with original WW2 style combat boots.

    Bare feet and sneakers didn't hurt so bad to be honest. The soft surface means it doesn't really get traction on the skin and with as well as without jeans (I attempted it in Flektarn also) it was discomforting but would make me more ticked off than force me to let go.

    But I can confirm with absolute impunity; that WW2 combat boots being scraped down your shins with force (I kinda asked for it) hurts in a way that can only be described as pain. Worse; on the way down he caught my toes which made me yelp in pain (despite trying to desperately hold on - he's a huge guy though so holding on was difficult to begin with but I was wearing running shoes) which made me howl in pain and fall to the ground laughing and clutching my foot.

    Of course I would imagine had I been wearing combat boots the stamping on my toes wouldn't have hurt quite as much. But the shin scraping discomfort is not something I will forget in a hurry.

    I would say though; that it was more of a 'surprise' pain than a 'oh my god what is that' pain. Which I would imagine would force me to let go if I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't game enough to try it again while ready.

    So to confirm; anyone testing should be wearing heavy sole boots for greatest effect. Sharing the love.
  5. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2013 11:03am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Next: boot defense
    Your opponent has seized you
    around the body from in front,
    pinning your arms to your sides.
    1. Having put your weight on
    one foot, raise the other and
    scrape your opponent's
    shinbone downwards from
    about half way from the knee,
    finishing up with a smashing
    blow on his foot (Fig. 9).
    2. An alternative method to Fig.
    9, permitting you to use the
    inner edge of the boot, is
    shown in Fig. 10.
    Note A. - Whether you should use the outside or inside of your boot will depend upon how the
    weight of your body is distributed at the time. Provided that you are equally balanced on both
    feet, you can use either; otherwise, use the one opposite to that on which you have your weight.
    Note B. - lf seized from behind, stamp on your opponent's foot with the heel of either boot,
    turning quickly and following up with a chin jab with either hand


    I feel that the attack he's doing in Fig. 9 would open one up to the opponent taking their back, which hardly seems worth it to stomp on a foot. Foot stomps work to some degree (we see them in MMA) but when they land in MMA you never see the other guy collapse wincing or anything like that. At any rate, you pretty much only see the toes pointed outward version so the body can stay square.

    In FMA, we use foot pins to set up some things, but the goal isn't to crush the foot, its to momentarily immobilize them, and if they didn't see it cause you did something along high lines too, you get a free movement where they try to move, realize they can't, and are flustered for a half second. I'm not good at this but one of my sparring partner uses it to good effect with or without weapons.

    In the context of a bearhug like they're showing, I'd teach the value of overhooks and underhooks (a bear hug is basically a variation), and how to dump someone on the ground from there. If you wanna be all deadly about it you could do the hip throw with a level change at the end to spike them into the ground headfirst.
  6. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2013 6:15pm


     Style: Kickboxing/MuaiThai (new)

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Foot stomp doesn't work in that situation. I now have a very painful foot but I wore my combat boots and had my behemoth brother stamp on my foot repeatedly trying to get my to release my grip and it really didn't happen. I then (after reading the above post) managed a take down and mount which I'm guessing is a nice after thought.

    The combat boot really did help in reducing the 'ouch' from the stomp. And he had a hard time actually catching my foot. The nature of the struggle means for him to stamp on my foot; he had to stand still. This gave me increased advantage as I was able to ground myself and control him much easier. However while he was moving I was struggling to keep him in check and he was unable to stand on my foot. With my limited grappling knowledge I was able to actually work it into a clinch several times (instinct) before releasing. At no time did I feel the stamp on the foot was effective; even when he managed to land a solid blow. (my foot is now swollen however)

    Contrary to that however; and this must be said. Trapping my foot by standing on it did offer him some advantage. At one point he stood on my foot and shifting all his weight to it shoved forward. I held on only to have the big man (with little to no combat experience) land square on top of me. Had he used any ground fighting experience I'd have been in a world of hurt (I was already).

    It seems trapping the foot can be an effective means of isolating the opponent and giving you a movement advantage. I had him do it again and step backwards and I found myself having a difficult time readjusting my balance; ending up giving him the weight advantage and turning my 'bear hug' into a 'friendly hug'.

    This was all done with a bear hug that was shown in the above image. I was taught to do bear hugs differently; isolating the lower back with the crossed hands and lifting slightly to cause stress on the lower back. When doing this my brother had a much harder time doing much of anything (lack of combat knowledge) and made standing on my feet / stamping on my foot ultimately ineffective.

    I use my brother for this due to his little to now fight knowledge and large stature. I figure he's the prime candidate for such a technique. However I am going to have to stop with the testing for this part as now I have scraped shins and a swollen right foot.

    As I write this sitting at my desk I am popping anti-inflams and dreading training tonight.
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2013 6:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of Hatmaker's (?) books notes that you can damage an ankle by pinning the foot down strongly and dumping them on the ground (the bodyweight's supposed to tear connective tissue), or by pinning the foot and lifting their body in an attempt to separate the ankle bones. I don't know how feasible either is, but the first seems more likely than the second. Seems like the kind of thing that might happen accidentally in grappling.
  8. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2013 6:50pm


     Style: Kickboxing/MuaiThai (new)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    One of Hatmaker's (?) books notes that you can damage an ankle by pinning the foot down strongly and dumping them on the ground (the bodyweight's supposed to tear connective tissue), or by pinning the foot and lifting their body in an attempt to separate the ankle bones. I don't know how feasible either is, but the first seems more likely than the second. Seems like the kind of thing that might happen accidentally in grappling.
    Strange that you mention this, when I fell backwards it didn't really do much to be honest.

    The weight shift that is needed to dump someone with force tends to be more centralized between two legs rather than located over the trapped foot.

    I feel that when I was taken down that the ankle could indeed break; but as an after thought only. I couldn't imagine anyone intentionally doing it. I would expect this to happen the same way you could dislocate someones shoulder or crack their head open by dumping them badly.

    Merely an after thought in my opinion at best and very unlikely to be intentional.
  9. Grey_Southpaw is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2013 10:40am


     Style: MMA, Hoshinsul

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In foam fighting, one of our "knights" used the foot trap constantly. He was a real pro at the shield bash/check and would nearly always knock you over. Basically, he used this as a more finesse type takedown, he would feint, step on your foot, check and then let off after you tried to correct your balance. Almost always would put you on the ground or stumble you to the point where all he had to do was a small push.

    As far as foot stomping to get out of a body lock? Again, I think it could be used to set up a real technique a la jjj. On it's own? Not so much. Of course, he does mention following up with the chin jab, so, maybe the intent is to throw with that anyway.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2013 12:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blows: The Bronco Kick:

    Your opponent is lying on the ground.
    1. Take a flying jump at your opponent, drawing your feet up by bending your
    knees, at the same time keeping your feet close together (Fig. 11)

    2. When your feet are approximately
    eight inches above your opponent's
    body, shoot your legs out straight,
    driving both of your boots into his
    body, and smash him.
    Note. - It is almost impossible for your
    opponent to parry a kick made in this manner,
    and, in addition, it immediately puts him on
    the defensive, leaving him only the alternative
    of rolling away from you in an attempt to
    escape. Further, although he may attempt to
    protect his body with his arms, the weight of
    your body (say 150 pounds), plus the impetus
    of your flying jump (say another 150 pounds),
    will drive your heels into your opponent's body
    with such terrific force that you will almost
    certainly kill him. Steel heel-plates on your
    boots will make his attack even more effective.
    Practice this kick on a dummy figure or on the grass as in Fig. 12



    I'd say this certainly has the potential to injure or kill. I don't agree, though, where he says it will almost certainly kill him. These sorts of kicks have been used in Pride many times over the years, and nobody has died. In fact, they're usually not even fight enders because they don't land as cleanly as the kicker would like. It seems common enough for their legs to be redirected so that the kicker falls down.

    Southeast Asian styles have finishing moves where you drop your knee onto your opponent. This is more sensible to me because you're less likely to fall down in the process, its less telegraphic, and it can end in a knee mount so you've got a good degree of control afterwards.

    Here's a Felony Fights vid with a knee drop finish (warning: graphic):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVI8...has_verified=1
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