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  1. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2013 8:35pm

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     Style: Wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fairbairn's advice of using the chin jab to defend against the bearhug is vaguely valid. Creating space is key to not getting taken down, and pushing the head away in conjunction with separating your hips is pretty effective.

    That's assuming the Nazi in the illustration was trying to perform a takedown. I think most authors of self-defense books assume bearhugs are used to crush people's spines, like Pumola did in Bloodsport.

    Here's a video of Bas using straight palms.



    In regards to both the knife hand and the chin jab, I'm reading about how clubs, knuckledusters, and knuckle-knives were popular in the US and British armies during both World Wars.



    ^Teh real combatives?
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2013 10:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Its probably worth noting the sport of purring when
    I am going to admit it I think the idea of cross training in purring seems like a pretty damn good idea. Mix in some good old dirty boxing and aground fighting and away you go.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2013 11:10pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Interesting?
  4. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2013 11:48pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    That's assuming the Nazi in the illustration was trying to perform a takedown. I think most authors of self-defense books assume bearhugs are used to crush people's spines, like Pumola did in Bloodsport.
    Or perhaps holding them in place so one of their comrades can pincushion them with something nasty like that knife below.

    In regards to both the knife hand and the chin jab, I'm reading about how clubs, knuckledusters, and knuckle-knives were popular in the US and British armies during both World Wars.



    ^Teh real combatives?
    Apparently Fairbairn's protege Applegate didn't really approve of knuckles and stuff like that in a knife, preferring something more straightforward. Eventually we'll get to his knife stuff. Fairbairn actually had 3 knife designs: the FS dagger, the smatchet, and the cobra knife.
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 3:56am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMO and in my experience, both side and front-facing low kicks in the savate/purring style being favored in Bartitsu; a coup de pied bas ("soccer style" swinging or chopping front instep kick) to the lead shin is mostly useful as an entry into another technique. That's assuming a "loose-play" situation in which the fighters are sparring at a distance rather than actively jacket-grappling; if they are grappling, that type of kick basically turns into a very percussive version of a judo trip (deashi harai, kouchi gari, etc.).

    The side-facing kick Fairbairn describes could be absolutely devastating if it struck the rear (support) leg anywhere around the knee joint at a moment when the opponent was standing on one foot, but it's pretty low-percentage otherwise.
  6. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 12:32pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think one thing to keep in perspective when we're talking about hand to hand combat in a military situation is the amount of gear you will be wearing / carrying.

    Anyone who has trained in a shitload of gear can confirm you can basically forget about any strategy that requires any type of lightfootedness or quick, agile movements. You can pretty much forget about that capoeira you've been practicing.

    You're going to be a slower, plodding version of yourself. You will be able to depend on power and aggression more than speed or agility.

    When I think of hand to hand combat, I always remember a first person account I read in a book about fighting the Japanese in WWII. A guy was in a fighting hole and watched a Japanese soldier dart over a hill, screaming with sword in hand and attack his buddy a few yards away. His buddy, who was in the middle of a reload or something grabbed the Japanese soldier and his fancy little katana, slammed him on the ground and stomped his brains out. That's the reality of hand to hand combat.
    Last edited by Devil; 8/03/2013 12:39pm at .
  7. Arkansan is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 4:31pm


     Style: Boxing, JKDish something

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just throwing a thought out there but I wonder if a kick like this may be useful as kind of a lead in to stomping someone foot in place. In JKD I have worked something like that with an oblique kick, where it is aimed just under the knee and slid down in a stomp to plant the other persons foot in place to step in on them.

    I haven't really tried it in sparring so I have no idea how well it works, but it does seem like it would be a bit iffy given the scenario that Get Tough supposes. Also if someone has proposed this already I apologize in advance for just skimming some of the posts.

    As to the chop proposed it seems like it could work, but honestly why not just teach them to jab and aim it at the throat. If it hits the throat hooray, if they bring their chin down then great you just caught them one on the chin. I also get the vibe that this is intended for very close range, like almost clinch or in clinch. I don't know why I get that impression but I do, even though I don't know what difference it would make.

    I can get behind the Chin Jab, honestly so far it seems to be the best of the bunch. Seems like a good way gain space or set someone up for something else, is less arm punchy than the Chop seems and the chin is a no brainer target.

    I love the old WW2 H2H manuals for some reason, not that I think much of what is in them is all that great they just grab me for some reason. Overall I get the impression that the idea was more to give the guys the belief that they knew some deadly **** and thus build morale, and hey if something sticks and happens to work then bonus points.
  8. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 5:41pm

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     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a WW1 video of H2H training:



    First part of the video is boxing instruction administered by famed middleweight Mike Gibbons. At about 3:30 to 4:35 we see some Japanese Jiu-Jitsu taught by Captain Allan Corstorphin, showcasing techniques such as a "come-along" armlock, groin kicking, and the chin jab. Then we get some Judo (Interesting to note is that the soldiers appear to clap their hands instead of tap when a choke is applied). Then, finally, some bayonet training.
  9. Arkansan is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 7:15pm


     Style: Boxing, JKDish something

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know I seem to remember seeing a Camp X syllabus somewhere that listed boxing instruction in the H2H section. I also seem to remember one or two other texts from the time assuming that the reader had at least some experience with boxing.

    Cool footage, the boxing is still very LPR in some respects. I always think stuff from that transitional period is neat.
    Last edited by Arkansan; 8/03/2013 7:18pm at .
  10. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2013 8:41pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    New avatar?
    Check the 1:00 mark on this vid:

    http://www.keepbusy.net/play.php?id=...cks-3-guys-out
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