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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 7:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Get Tough's description is pretty brief, but based on other sources its supposed to be a strike to the chin that does the damage that a chin strike does, plus rocks the head back to set up the takedown. So it starts as an uppercut (elbow down) and transitions to elbow up (pushing down) after the chin is rocked back. Some teach to finish with an o soto style reap too.
    Mas Ayoob goes over a variation of this in his book "The Truth About Self Protection". From memory, it is a neck twist takedown that starts as something similar to the chin jab under discussion. According to Ayoob, you start the attack from low, so the guy can't see it coming, grab the back of the head with the other hand, twist and step in to the opponent. Grabbing hair is good if available, plus stepping into an Osoto Gari like position.

    Described as dangerous for a larger stronger person to do (danger of neck injury to opponent).

    As a judoka, I could see this working, again, depending on context. If you can get a guys head back, they will be off balance for a moment, or recoil forward for a forward throw (action reaction), twisting the head (not legal or safe in Judo), would work better, but the lower body will need to be held in place, hence the step to the outside a la' Osoto Gari.
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  2. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2013 8:34pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is them niggas really wearing Lone Ranger masks? lol.

    I don't know, the chin thing just reminds me too much of ninjers. The chin strike followed by downward eyeball gouges is a Hatsumi staple.

    To me, it seems like this is an either/or type of thing. Either a strike or a takedown. Not both. If I'm striking the chin I'm driving through and I'd have to reset in order to be in position to use it as a takedown. If I intend to use it as a takedown it would be more of a forceful grab and push of the chin instead of a strike.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 1:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing that Perma brought up with the chop that I forgot about was the thumb position. The way he says to do it with the thumb up seems like a bad idea. Every time I've tried it, my other fingers want to open up too. Which would be bad. Tucking the thumb in is a better idea because it makes you want to keep the hand tight.

    Chin jab-

    He says in his description that the distance it will travel will be less than 6 inches. So it seems to be used more of an uppercut than anything else. Not really what Bas was talking about with palm strikes. Also interesting that he mentions keeping the fingers extended towards the eye, but ends with that. Nothing on trying to rake the eyes. So was that mentioned just as a way to keep the fingers out of the way, and nothing more?

    I think it would work best just as a method to push and control the head. Not using it as a strike, necessarily.
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  4. Grey_Southpaw is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 8:42pm


     Style: MMA, Hoshinsul

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm pretty "meh" about this technique. I have thrown people like this, but not people that knew anything. I'm actually cool with the strike part. I think of it as more jjj atemi than a strike intended to do damage.

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  5. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 8:57pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Southpaw View Post
    I think of it as more jjj atemi than a strike intended to do damage.
    And this is how I learnt to do it in JJJ. We would learn to do a simultaneous block (assuming they were doing an overhand right), chin strike and diagonal forward step then follow through pushing the head to setup the kuzushi for an osotogari.

    Works great if you know beforehand that an overhand right is coming through.
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  6. Hadzu is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 5:30am


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, the chin-jab looks somewhat like a technique in JJK, which functions as a takedown ending in a joint lock; while I haven't actually used it in a real-life situation, it seems to have potential when used with sufficient force on an opponent who wasn't expecting to get taken down. There's a separate technique in the curriculum that is more or less identical, but also uses the suggested O Soto-reap, which seems more high-percentage to me.

    /Erik
  7. Fuzzy is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 5:41am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We also learned the chin jab/push into Osotogari in Fanchento (JKD/Judo/JJJ hybrid thing). IIRC it was:
    Parry incoming strike, drive palm up under chin, walk forward and reap.

    Alternatively:
    Parry incoming strike and grab striking arm, twist hips and pull arm while driving palm under chin and reaping.

    Never really worked for me, always found it much easier to reap from under/overhooks.
  8. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 6:44am


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From a push, osoto perspective I like to grab the middle of the face and not muck around with the chin.

    Covers their eyes and I think I just get more head movement.

    The strike is more moonslap style.

    If I am going to uppercut I will uppercut.
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  9. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 11:39am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Is them niggas really wearing Lone Ranger masks? lol.

    I don't know, the chin thing just reminds me too much of ninjers. The chin strike followed by downward eyeball gouges is a Hatsumi staple.

    To me, it seems like this is an either/or type of thing. Either a strike or a takedown. Not both. If I'm striking the chin I'm driving through and I'd have to reset in order to be in position to use it as a takedown. If I intend to use it as a takedown it would be more of a forceful grab and push of the chin instead of a strike.
    I think that's a reasonable analysis. I also think the grab could/would have some element of a strike, even if it's not a full power strike intended only as a strike. If the guys mouth is open, then his teeth clacking together will send a pretty good shock into his brain (I know this from multiple personal instances in Judo training).

    The guy's lower body is going to have to be pinned unless the grab is done very hard and very fast...just like you can't do Osoto Gari without upper body control, it's a "couple" throw.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 11:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Similar Technique in Judo Goshin Jutsu

    Here is an application of something similar in the Goshin Jutsu of Kodokan Judo.

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    Armed Attack - Stick
    Furiage - upswing against a stickFuriage
    Attacker steps back with his right foot, raises the stick with the right hand preparing to deliver a blow. As attacker brings the stick back to strike, defender steps in, blocking the attacking arm with the left hand, delivering a palm strike to the chin and throwing attacker backward with right osotogari.

    Here is a video. Skip to 28:40 for Furiage.
    http://youtu.be/HMt57kVJhLE?t=28m34s

    Falling for Judo since 1980
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