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  1. #21

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ and wrestling have two very different philosophies when it comes to training, and I think it's to the advantage of wrestling. At least when it comes to competition. And a lot of BJJ schools have counter-balanced this by having "competition" classes where conditioning and aggressive game plans are emphasized.

    One of the places I used to train at had a really good setup. Normal BJJ technique classes, "competition" classes, wrestling/take-downs (they had wrestling coaches come in and teach the class). I thought it was perfect for putting together an all-around game plan.

  2. #22
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    Also you don't always have to "wrestle" from your feet. If I pull guard and the guy is posturing in closed guard too much but I can't hip bump them over, I can create space, stand in base or butterfly guard, and shoot a power double while they are on their knees or low single if they are standing. I've used it over and over in the last couple of years as a "sweep", it works amazingly well.
    I have been known to do the same thing in Judo you describe...usually in randori, but a few times in competition. It's not often very appreciated but works !

    Apropos of nothing, I also use the "rude" turtle attack of just grabbing the collar and a lapel under their arm from the rear and ripping them over backwards, especially if they turtle with dead toes. That one's a def pisser-offer.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  3. #23
    danharr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    That's not quite what I'm getting at, though. Lots of BJJ schools teach wrestling techniques. My son's school teaches wrestling techniques. That doesn't necessarily make them capable of stuffing a skilled wrestler's takedowns. Just like BJJ schools usually incorporate Judo throws but they still tend to get tossed when they face a decent Judoka.

    I think a couple people made good points about wrestling only having a limited influence on BJJ because of the ruleset. On the other hand, I can totally see the advantage a couple of the others say they've experienced due to their wrestling. That's what I was seeing when I watched the kids.

    Anyway, the different perspectives you guys have are interesting.
    I hear you and wrestling is on my list to ultimate fighterdom. I am a little confused my BJJ school has an olympic Iranian wrestler teaching the art but does that mean Greco Roman. Not that I have a problem with that form but from what I hear I need to be looking for a catch wrestling school.

  4. #24
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danharr View Post
    I hear you and wrestling is on my list to ultimate fighterdom. I am a little confused my BJJ school has an olympic Iranian wrestler teaching the art but does that mean Greco Roman. Not that I have a problem with that form but from what I hear I need to be looking for a catch wrestling school.
    Olympic wrestling includes Greco Roman and also Freestyle. Neither does submissions, but the training should serve you well either way.

    Catch wrestling has a lot of cool stuff, but there's no quality control of the style, so you never know what you're gonna get. Catch is sometimes taught by wing chun or karate guys who wanted to say they could grapple so they bought some videos and trained a bit. Its not like claiming BJJ or judo where things can be easily verified by lineage or competition success.

  5. #25
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by danharr View Post
    I hear you and wrestling is on my list to ultimate fighterdom. I am a little confused my BJJ school has an olympic Iranian wrestler teaching the art but does that mean Greco Roman. Not that I have a problem with that form but from what I hear I need to be looking for a catch wrestling school.
    Olympic wrestling is freestyle, where all takedowns are legal, or Greco where you can only attack the upper body.

    You do not need to be looking for a catch wrestling school to learn to wrestle, no. Even if you did find one of the minuscule number of "catch" guys in the world who aren't total rubbish, good wrestling skills in one (or both) of the Olympic styles are a prerequisite to be any good at it.

    P.S. Kick whoever told you that directly in the crotch.

  6. #26
    danharr's Avatar
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    Alright thanks guys for the info looks like I'll be next door at the other side of the school getting yelled out by our Iranian coach he's a screamer...

  7. #27
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So this brings me to the next part of the discussion. There's only one wrestling team in my area that teaches kids my son's age. They teach folkstyle.

    I don't know **** about wrestling really. Tell me about folkstyle and how it will translate to BJJ and martial arts in general.

  8. #28
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Tell me about folkstyle and how it will translate to BJJ and martial arts in general.
    Short answer, very well. Folkstyle concentrates a lot more on control and escapes on the floor where freestyle prioritises big throws. All those scary US wrestlers in the UFC were folk style guys first, though some competed in the international styles later (all American wrestlers full stop, really).

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I have been known to do the same thing in Judo you describe...usually in randori, but a few times in competition. It's not often very appreciated but works !

    Apropos of nothing, I also use the "rude" turtle attack of just grabbing the collar and a lapel under their arm from the rear and ripping them over backwards, especially if they turtle with dead toes. That one's a def pisser-offer.



    Here's Marcelo doing it. Cobrina actually kind of did it as well.

  10. #30
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    So this brings me to the next part of the discussion. There's only one wrestling team in my area that teaches kids my son's age. They teach folkstyle.

    I don't know **** about wrestling really. Tell me about folkstyle and how it will translate to BJJ and martial arts in general.
    Folkstyle is what kids learn first in wrestling in the US at least, and most compete in itin High School and certainly if competing in grade school. They also do Freestyle and Greco. I used to go to the Freestyle classes at our local high school...I should start going again but it's a matter of not enough time for family, Judo, plus high school wrestling.

    Folkstyle will teach your boy very solid wrestling basics. They can legally do most Judo throws, too, which are pretty much in common with Freestyle as well. I just did no-gi Judo in the Freestyle classes and was fine...no need to worry about chokes or armbars on the ground either, LOL.

    If your son can get into the school wrestling program (if there is one) even better for him!
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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