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  1. #11
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    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Ha! Now that's a funny thought.......potentially watching BJJ "evolve" into Judo. I can just see the heads exploding.
    Unless they change the ruleset to give more points for "takedowns", it won't go too far I think. There has to be some sort of incentive.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

  2. #12
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Unless they change the ruleset to give more points for "takedowns", it won't go too far I think. There has to be some sort of incentive.
    True.

    I try to look at things from a self defense perspective too. **** getting slammed. Better to be the slammer than the slammee. That's incentive enough in my book.

  3. #13
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    But with the level of wrestling these kids are going to bring as they get older, I don't think mixing some takedown defense into your training is going to be enough to keep you from starting every match on your back.
    "On your back" is the best scoring position in BJJ rules at most of the lighter weights, statistically speaking. That's why you see guys playing footsie from the double guard pull, sweeping is easier than passing and nobody is fool enough to concede take-down points. IMO this is an unfortunate direction for the sport and rules should do much more to reflect top position and encourage wrestling from the feet. However it is the state of the rules, and will remain so as long as they change substantially, that a competent all-around wrestling game isn't necessary to succeed at them, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

    Everything else you said is true. To actually use your Jiu jitsu is any more open rule set, wrestling helps like a mother-fucker.

  4. #14
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    "On your back" is the best scoring position in BJJ rules at most of the lighter weights, statistically speaking. That's why you see guys playing footsie from the double guard pull, sweeping is easier than passing and nobody is fool enough to concede take-down points. IMO this is an unfortunate direction for the sport and rules should do much more to reflect top position and encourage wrestling from the feet. However it is the state of the rules, and will remain so as long as they change substantially, that a competent all-around wrestling game isn't necessary to succeed at them, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

    Everything else you said is true. To actually use your Jiu jitsu is any more open rule set, wrestling helps like a mother-fucker.
    Yeah, makes sense.

  5. #15
    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off
    DKJr's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes it has. I've experienced it on a personal level and I've seen it's impact at competitions.

    For me personally I was a buttflopping guard puller and I lost a match because I couldn't in anyway submit the guy and he could take me down whenever. I've worked on developing a takedown game that can work in MMA/BJJ. It has certainly made a difference in that I now can have a say in where I fight from.

    Also you don't always have to "wrestle" from your feet. If I pull guard and the guy is posturing in closed guard too much but I can't hip bump them over, I can create space, stand in base or butterfly guard, and shoot a power double while they are on their knees or low single if they are standing. I've used it over and over in the last couple of years as a "sweep", it works amazingly well.
    Last edited by DKJr; 7/23/2013 9:49pm at .

  6. #16
    danharr's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guess it depends on your BJJ school cause my Gracie gym teaches wrestling techniques as part of the curriculum and to my knowledge have been doing so for years.

  7. #17
    jnp's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    Yes it has. I've experienced it on a personal level and I've seen it's impact at competitions.

    For me personally I was a buttflopping guard puller and I lost a match because I couldn't in anyway submit the guy and he could take me down whenever. I've worked on developing a takedown game that can work in MMA/BJJ. It has certainly made a difference in that I now can have a say in where I fight from.

    Also you don't always have to "wrestle" from your feet. If I pull guard and the guy is posturing in closed guard too much but I can't hip bump them over, I can create space, stand in base or butterfly guard, and shoot a power double while they are on their knees or low single if they are standing. I've used it over and over in the last couple of years as a "sweep", it works amazingly well.
    Hey, you know what works better than BJJ and wrestling?

    Cross training in both.

  8. #18
    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off
    DKJr's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Hey, you know what works better than BJJ and wrestling?

    Cross training in both.

  9. #19
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by danharr View Post
    Guess it depends on your BJJ school cause my Gracie gym teaches wrestling techniques as part of the curriculum and to my knowledge have been doing so for years.

    That's not quite what I'm getting at, though. Lots of BJJ schools teach wrestling techniques. My son's school teaches wrestling techniques. That doesn't necessarily make them capable of stuffing a skilled wrestler's takedowns. Just like BJJ schools usually incorporate Judo throws but they still tend to get tossed when they face a decent Judoka.

    I think a couple people made good points about wrestling only having a limited influence on BJJ because of the ruleset. On the other hand, I can totally see the advantage a couple of the others say they've experienced due to their wrestling. That's what I was seeing when I watched the kids.

    Anyway, the different perspectives you guys have are interesting.

  10. #20
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my very limited experience, BJJ guys seem more likely to try for a takedown, feel resistance, and switch to something else, while wrestlers seem more likely to try for a takedown, feel resistance, and continue driving forward until the opponent's posture/balance is defeatable.

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