Posted On:7/22/2013 11:11am
Originally Posted by andrewpmma
But all hell say is im bigger than him, which to me already proves wrestling to be lesser as a form of self defense. Because its mostly based off pure strength rather than technique.
Maybe try being less polarized and approach it from a logical perspective... Wrestling isn't based off pure strength, its about manipulation of balance and angles of attack just like Judo. Size and strength counts in every kind of fight, Judo has weight classes dude.
You have to work the look.
Posted On:7/22/2013 11:57am
Style: Judo, BJJ
Have you tried pointing out that judo is basically the same thing as wrestling?
Originally Posted by andrewpmma
Ive offered to roll, and have mentioned coming down to see what it really is. But all hell say is im bigger than him, [...]
The point isn't to beat him the point is that he will see that judo is trained pretty much the same way as wrestling, and that it is not kata based as you say he thinks.
Last edited by CrackFox; 7/22/2013 12:03pm at .
Fear and bullets.
Posted On:7/22/2013 12:30pm
The fundamental concepts (and many techniques) in both judo and wrestling are nearly identical.
Ever wonder why?
And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".
--Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
Posted On:7/22/2013 12:43pm
When I started judo it was pretty easy to translate many of my wrestling techniques over, and even now when we do no gi randori I shoot for singles and doubles way more then I do any pure judo throws. The two arts are very similar and as someone whos done both I can not say that one is better then the other.
Both teach very effective techniques that would definitly give an edge in a self defense situation.
As far as getting your point across to your relatives goes, the only real way would be to either show some good comp vids or get them to come to a class. Us wrestlers can be notoriously stubborn.
MADE OF STEEL!
Posted On:7/22/2013 1:25pm
To me, the principal difference between wrestling and judo re: self defense application is the presence vs absence of strangulation techniques. Given the documented effectiveness of strangulation as a means of ending confrontations, I would favor judo for that reason.
The fool thinks himself immortal,
If he hold back from battle;
But old age will grant him no truce,
Even if spears spare him.
Posted On:7/22/2013 1:38pm
Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike
MTripp used to say on here all the time, "Judo is wrestling with a jacket". I defer to him on those matters, but I do agree with him.
Combatives training log.
Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D
Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
Posted On:7/22/2013 1:41pm
Style: Jujitsu Aikido Bodycombat
I call it a tie. I'd give the edge to Wrestling for the initial throws since none of the wrestling throws use clothing/gi whereas some Judo throws do. I'd give the edge to Judo on the ground since wrestlers just basically roll you onto your back and lie on you whereas Judo also has strangles and joint locks.
Posted On:7/22/2013 3:20pm
Because its mostly based off pure strength rather than technique.
I'd like to refer you to the video I posted earlier where a midget wrestler beats up a normy, and the other video I posted where a small kid beats up a jock with wrestling.
Wrestling in summer, judo in winter
I upvoted this, but it's actually the other way around. Wrestling season's in winter.
Posted On:7/22/2013 3:48pm
Originally Posted by NeilG
OP your relatives don't know what they are talking about.
Cuddles I'm not sure you do either. Win by pin in any form of wrestling I'm aware of is both shoulders to the mat for a brief time, at most 2 secs depending on style. When I've watched wrestling its seemed to me that the focus for the pin is just that, get those shoulders down. Judo requires you to control the opponent for 25 sec (20 under the newest rules) to win. How is this worse than wrestling?
Win by pin > Win by takedown. In wrestling, you already go for the takedown.
I'll parallel your statement (and I'm expecting negs from the Judo lovers here):
When I've watched Judo it seemed to me that the focus for the win is just that, break off contact repeatedly before making a single throw. Wrestling requires you to actively fight hands and positions for an advantage, doesn't allow you to run as easily, and forces you to have a ground game. How is this worse than Judo?
Also you're confusing the rules by saying Wrestling only controls for 2 seconds for the pin vs Judo's 25 seconds. While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points. (Basically your ippon. Except ours comes from the ground, yours from the clinch/stand-up)
But putting minor details aside, we're basically arguing a 25 second ground game vs a 3 minute one with very similar techniques, which makes the difference superficial.
Posted On:7/22/2013 4:43pm
Is this guy making an arguement that you have to hand fight more in wrestling than in Judo? Seriously brah? Also, NielG was saying that in a wresting pin, you hold their shoulders to the ground for 3 seconds and you win. In a Judo pin, you have to hold your dominant position for a full 20 seconds.
Aaand you can score ippon by pin, armbar or choke, not just a throw. And an ippon throw has strict guidelines, even more so with the current rule changes, so way more often than not a throw leads to groundfighting.
Have you even done Judo, cuddles?
Edit: I realized that came across a little Judo fanboy, so don't get me wrong here. I wrestled 4 years in highschool, and the body control and correct application of force I learned was invaluable to my athletic career and would be perfect for most kinds of combat.
I'm just saying cuddles doesn't know much about Judo.
Last edited by Canadaka; 7/22/2013 4:50pm at .
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