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  1. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2014 3:30pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Forgotten weapons

    I did a basic search and found no thread about this guy, who is awesome and deserves attention in my opinion.



    If you haven't seen this channel yet, it's worth to check. If it has already been discussed please delete.



    Also I CAN'T BELIEVE what the Brits had at the end of FIRST WORLD WAR and just let it slide into oblivion...
    Never heard of it:
  2. mrtnira is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2014 6:52pm


     Style: Karate

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    I've found that many people presume that other people were not as smart as we are in this era, which is "the sin of present-ism." 30 years ago some aged instructor in a history course used that term, and it has been something I've seen often since then.

    The Wright brothers had the Wright Flier in 1903, and 13 years later there were twin engine bombers doing night bombing missions over Berlin. People of every era are smart, and we are unwise not to honor them.
  3. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2014 11:20pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I was implying is why stick with bolt action rifles - in this case Enfields, when you had a great semi-automatic weapon. Why they didn't develop this concept further and make that at least a part of the army arsenal if not standard issue like M1 Garand. Instead they completely dropped the idea.

    That I find a bit strange. It would be a better suppression weapon.
    Last edited by Stickybomb; 9/02/2014 11:27pm at .
  4. Kovacs is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2014 1:10am


     Style: 5x5, 5.56mm

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    That's the British Army all over, moments of genius followed by moments of utter craziness. That and probably post war budget restraints.
    "Won't fight me in the ring? Don't fight me on the street."
    Paraphrased from Bullshido.

    "You can't judge Martial Arts until you feel the joy of kicking someone in the face and not go to prison for it."
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  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2014 11:31am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickybomb View Post
    What I was implying is why stick with bolt action rifles - in this case Enfields, when you had a great semi-automatic weapon. Why they didn't develop this concept further and make that at least a part of the army arsenal if not standard issue like M1 Garand. Instead they completely dropped the idea.

    That I find a bit strange. It would be a better suppression weapon.
    Conservatism in the military for one thing. Another is the belief that the average soldier was too dumb/ignorant/poorly trained to use an advanced weapon, and/or would just waste ammo on rapid, un-aimed fire.

    M-1 Garand was thought to be not accurate enough vs '03...

    Example: Magazine cut-offs on bolt action repeaters...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2014 5:12pm

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    Conservatism is a good point. It also depends on the Doctrine that underpinned the tactical. Although if the first day of the Somme on 1 Jul 16 is any clue....

    The British Infantry achieved very high rates of fire. They were very skilled and that was using single shot .303 Lee Enfields. It has been asserted that the German Infantry were surprised by the high rate of fire and mistakenly thought that they were subject to machine gun fire.

    It looks like it might have been a useful weapon and would have been appreciate by some. That said, I seem to have read that the British Army was somewhat resistant to the new Maxim machine gun.

    I also thought that the Springfield/Winchester repeating rifle was available for purchase at the same time as the American Civll War, when both armies were using single shot rifles.

    Anyway, I'm not too knowledgeable about guns and rifles so feel free to disagree and mock my ignorance.
  7. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2014 10:31am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    Conservatism is a good point. It also depends on the Doctrine that underpinned the tactical. Although if the first day of the Somme on 1 Jul 16 is any clue....

    The British Infantry achieved very high rates of fire. They were very skilled and that was using single shot .303 Lee Enfields. It has been asserted that the German Infantry were surprised by the high rate of fire and mistakenly thought that they were subject to machine gun fire.

    It looks like it might have been a useful weapon and would have been appreciate by some. That said, I seem to have read that the British Army was somewhat resistant to the new Maxim machine gun.

    I also thought that the Springfield/Winchester repeating rifle was available for purchase at the same time as the American Civll War, when both armies were using single shot rifles.

    Anyway, I'm not too knowledgeable about guns and rifles so feel free to disagree and mock my ignorance.
    I don't think Lee-Enfields are single shot rifles...they are known for their ease of rapid fire, for a bolt action rifle, at least. Mad minute ring a bell?

    Civil war they had Henry repeaters and one other that I'm brain - farting the name of...plus cap and ball revolvers were used. The old volley fire was the name of the game in any case, and they were using rifled muskets, not rifles, firing Minie balls for the most part (muzzleloaders).

    Edit** Spencer repeaters were available, but not widely, and ammo was an issue as well...not up to wartime production.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

    http://www.henryrifles.com/henry-history/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_repeating_rifle

    (sorry for wiki but in hurry at work)
    Last edited by BKR; 9/04/2014 10:35am at .
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2014 2:04am

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     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

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    I LOVE his channel. Sorry, low content post.
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  9. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2014 4:23am


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Mad minute ring a bell?
    Good lord, my respect for Enfield has just risen through the roof. I thought it far more clumsy and slow for accurate fast firing.

    Now I'd really like to see some quality comparison tests against Mauser.
    Last edited by Stickybomb; 10/06/2014 4:42am at .
  10. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2014 5:38am


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep, Mauser still seems to be the best....

    Stealing from a youtube lore:
    I think 98 is being underestimated, for some reason cock on close is being valued more.

    Cock on open has many things going for it:
    -Safety blocks striker from ever reaching round unless fully locked
    -Unlocking doesn't need much force anyway, good place to add cocking-force
    -Bolt gives more leverage allowing shorter stronger spring for reliability with dirt and shorter lock time.
    -Ergonomic advantage pulling towards you
    -weight of rifle on your side in bolt lift
    -aggressiveness in bolt opening is transferred to much force in retraction: good for reliable extraction, ejection and ensuring full bolt travel.
    -Closing has no extra forces, it can be much smoother, important for reliability and not disturbing aim.

    Problems with cocking on closing:
    -adds extra resistance along with resistance of stripping round from mag and chambering round
    -Adds extra force near end bolt cycle where it disturbs aim more.
    -The increased aggressiveness needed to overcome this can lead to bolt bounce... the bolt bouncing off the breech as you're trying to lock it, I've seen this happen so often.
    -A brief moment on closing action the striker is charged but the bolt unlocked, a minor malfunction could lead to the bolt exploding back. Ditto for if striker jams forward and slam fires or when ejecting a live round (assuming a dud, actually a sticky striker)
    -The SMLE striker spring has to be weaker over longer distance to compensate for less mechanical advantage, the makes it more prone to the striker sticking.


    Other issues with SMLE:
    -the magazine is vulnerable to impacts which can shift the magazine just a bit so bolt no longer strips cartridges. As well as protected internal magazine, the feed-lips of 98 are integral with the receiver for extremely reliable "magazine seating".
    -SMLE stripper clips are harder to use, they must be inserted the right way up, are harder to insert and the clip must be removed before trying to close bolt, unlike 98 where you can just shove in clip any way, shove in rounds and slam bolt forward. This does a lot to giving 98 similar sustained rates of fire to SMLE.
    -SMLE rifles could get worn out very quickly due to rear locking as the receiver stretches. This can lead to head-spacing problems and even case-head separation (catastrophic failure in combat)
    -its not weak, but its significantly weaker and less accurate than 98 series rifles.

    Caveats.
    -SMLE would have been brilliant if issued with more magazines. Swapping box magazines is so much quicker (for rounds reloaded) than stripper clips
    -Trench Magazines of 98 change everything, a whole 25 rounds before needing a reload is huge, but like amassing extra mags for SMLE, such Trench mags were rare.

    To me, the SMLE is the plucky underdog... flawed and crude, but it's got a party trick and lots of guts.

    However, the Mauser 98 is the refined professional, it's the most rounded military service rifle which may explain why it was the most popular rifle in the early 20th century in all regions not under British Empire control.

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