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  1. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 5:57pm


     Style: Hapkido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    An assessment of headgear based on severity and likelihood of brain damage

    After a bit of research, I have updated my physics and martial arts blog with an assessment of headgear and helmets based on severity and likelihood of brain damage the across several different sports.

    http://theamazingdoctorawesome.blogs...even-help.html

    The thirty second version is "Boxing and baseball headgear help reduce brain damage, but only slightly. Football headgear reduces brain injury only marginally more than the other two, but encourages much harder hits, resulting in a net increase in brain injury due to the headgear."

    Also, turn around and run away from headgear with a face guard on it.

    Thoughts? Personal experiences or anecdotes to add some color?
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  2. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 6:23pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anecdotally, I've been rocked pretty good while wearing those face shield headgears. Didn't really realize they were less safe though. It kinda makes sense that the pro-faceshield side thinks they're right- they get hit with a shield, it still sucks, but they come to the incorrect conclusion that it would actually be far worse without it.
  3. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 6:37pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Anecdotally, I've been rocked pretty good while wearing those face shield headgears. Didn't really realize they were less safe though. It kinda makes sense that the pro-faceshield side thinks they're right- they get hit with a shield, it still sucks, but they come to the incorrect conclusion that it would actually be far worse without it.
    Yup. Same here. I had one years back, but took it off after a few nasty hits. I couldn't articulate why at the time, but it felt like something was wrong.
  4. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 7:13pm


     Style: FMA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Anecdotally, I've been rocked pretty good while wearing those face shield headgears. Didn't really realize they were less safe though. It kinda makes sense that the pro-faceshield side thinks they're right- they get hit with a shield, it still sucks, but they come to the incorrect conclusion that it would actually be far worse without it.
    The only argument I can see for pro face shield that makes sense is from a weapons training viewpoint where eye gouges are a frequent possibility. Even goggles or safety glasses might let a stray thrust sneak in. Also, the bony structure of the face and head are a bad place to take shots because of the risk of cuts. Of course, i'm sure we are learning toward empty hand head gear with this thread, but I have to be a douche and bring up why i'm right.

    Edit: I suppose I could add more relavent discussion by comparing hard head gear like lacrosse helmets for weapons training to fencing masks and lighter head protection.
  5. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 8:22pm


     Style: Kickboxing/MuaiThai (new)

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    A helmet that covers the face requires force to be distributed around the head (which is why you see the bars on a football helmet wrap around the sides).

    A flat surface helmet for protection doesn't so much redistribute the energy as much as it does create a hard surface where the energy impacts but does not penetrate (akin to safety glasses) where the force is still has transfer through the object and the wearer would feel it (head snaps back).

    The problem with fighting head gear is direction of attack. You would need a substance that could contract and disperse rapidly for absorbing impact while allowing it to expand again for the next impact. Almost a 'second' helmet on top of the first that could shift with the impact direction. Then one would have to consider hard surfaces damaging the opponent (a football helmet in kicboxing for instance) which almost begs for a helmet to be made out of some of that liquid goo stuff that was being put into gloves earlier.

    Problem is such an item would be expensive to create and by design would be difficult to manufacture. Which defaults it to being moot; but a better alternative is definitely needed.
  6. Boydy83 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2013 10:15pm


     Style: Muay Thai / Judo / JKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In regards to boxing/Kickboxing you would think head gear would increase the brain damage factor as in theory one could take more shots to the head wearing one then if they didnt...
  7. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2013 8:39am


     Style: Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    The only argument I can see for pro face shield that makes sense is from a weapons training viewpoint where eye gouges are a frequent possibility. Even goggles or safety glasses might let a stray thrust sneak in. Also, the bony structure of the face and head are a bad place to take shots because of the risk of cuts. Of course, i'm sure we are learning toward empty hand head gear with this thread, but I have to be a douche and bring up why i'm right.

    Edit: I suppose I could add more relavent discussion by comparing hard head gear like lacrosse helmets for weapons training to fencing masks and lighter head protection.
    Yea, this assessment was on brain damage risk, which is typically only applicable to empty hand. Sticks, sharkies, rubber knives, etc. all have the ability to create local tissue damage and they may break bones, but they do not put you at high risk for brain damage. They fall into the high-energy, low-momentum category I mention briefly a couple of blog posts earlier.

    For that type of training I always use a fencing mask or filipino headgear, or racquetball goggles and a mouthguard if its foam or rubber knives.
  8. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2013 9:56am


     Style: Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    The only argument I can see for pro face shield that makes sense is from a weapons training viewpoint where eye gouges are a frequent possibility. Even goggles or safety glasses might let a stray thrust sneak in. Also, the bony structure of the face and head are a bad place to take shots because of the risk of cuts. Of course, i'm sure we are learning toward empty hand head gear with this thread, but I have to be a douche and bring up why i'm right.

    Edit: I suppose I could add more relavent discussion by comparing hard head gear like lacrosse helmets for weapons training to fencing masks and lighter head protection.
    Yea, this assessment was on brain damage risk, which is typically only applicable to empty hand. Sticks, sharkies, rubber knives, etc. all have the ability to create local tissue damage and they may break bones, but they do not put you at high risk for brain damage. They fall into the high-energy, low-momentum category I mention briefly a couple of blog posts earlier.

    For that type of training I always use a fencing mask or filipino headgear, or racquetball goggles and a mouthguard if its foam or rubber knives.
  9. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2013 12:03pm


     Style: Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoscant View Post
    A helmet that covers the face requires force to be distributed around the head (which is why you see the bars on a football helmet wrap around the sides).

    ...
    So the most important factor to consider when we are looking at brain damage is momentum transfer, and while we can do all sorts of fun stuff to redirect or spread out energy on impact, momentum is still conserved. Now, that's not to say all those other things don't protect us, they just protect us from other things, like cuts or broken bones.

    This really leaves us with two main options for better protecting us from brain damage - either a) increase the mass of the head with heavy headgear, or b) provide stiffer support between the head and the body so a punch ends up knocking your whole body back instead of just your head.
  10. Dr_Awesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2013 12:09pm


     Style: Hapkido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy83 View Post
    In regards to boxing/Kickboxing you would think head gear would increase the brain damage factor as in theory one could take more shots to the head wearing one then if they didnt...
    Absolutely. Of course, it is incredibly difficult to answer that question... would you rather be punched 2 times with some minimal protection, or once without...

    But your argument is exactly the reason they will be pulling headgear for some olympic boxers in 2016. Well... the real rea$on is probably $omething different, but yea.

    http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/st...spark-interest
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