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  1. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 4:49pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Join locks, pins, and chokes are katame waza in Judo. Chokes and many joint locks can be done in a standing position, so are not specifically ne waza. Pins in Judo at least all occur while in ne waza, though.

    Ne waza is a lot more than just katame waza applied on the ground, it is how you move, position, enter the techniques (katame waza) while in the ne waza position.
    Thanks for the clarification. Hadzu if you are unfamiliar with the regulars, BKR trumps me in judo matters by quite a bit.
  2. Hadzu is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 5:07pm


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Hadzu if you are unfamiliar with the regulars, BKR trumps me in judo matters by quite a bit.
    Good to know, but (hopefully) without sounding like a suck-up that's a pretty high bar. I'm pretty sure Judo and JJK use very similar terminology, but joint locks in the latter falls under Kansetsu Waza, and Katame Waza is just "pinning moves" (typically a joint lock performed standing while your opponent is on the ground, which is the end position for most of the techniques). I get the impression it's sort of "tomato, tomatoeh" between the two MAs, though.

    /Erik
  3. Hadzu is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 5:11pm


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    It's mostly my fault.

    But, if you understand why this thread has motivated me to finish my judo shodan so that I don't offer poor advice, you'll understand Bullshido perfectly.

    I really did feel from the beginning that you had already figured out your own problem, sorry if my rhetoric was a bit pointed. I was born with a sharp tongue.

    Now please, go train.
    Yeah, this place seems pretty motivational, in it's own love/hate way; gonna go train as soon as possible!

    As for whether or not I had the problem figured out myself, I suppose I had a rough sketch of how to go about it, but I felt it was a good plan to consult people with way more MA/life experience than myself (and hopefully kick some life into the then-stale JMA forum), and get a little discussion going. For what it's worth, I learned a lot from it!

    /Erik
  4. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 5:27pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadzu View Post
    Good to know, but (hopefully) without sounding like a suck-up that's a pretty high bar. I'm pretty sure Judo and JJK use very similar terminology, but joint locks in the latter falls under Kansetsu Waza, and Katame Waza is just "pinning moves" (typically a joint lock performed standing while your opponent is on the ground, which is the end position for most of the techniques). I get the impression it's sort of "tomato, tomatoeh" between the two MAs, though.

    /Erik
    Joint locks in judo are also kansetsu-waza, pins are osae-waza, chokes are shime-waza. Katame-waza as Ben already pointed out are grappling techniques in general regardless of whether they are applied standing or on the ground.

    Japanese terms aren't standard though so you can't make blanket statements. For example, in judo counter-attacks are kaeshi-waza, in kendo that refers to a subset of counters, we call counters in general oji-waza. Judo says mate to call a halt to a match, kendo says yame. Etc, etc.
  5. Hadzu is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2013 8:09am


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Joint locks in judo are also kansetsu-waza, pins are osae-waza, chokes are shime-waza. Katame-waza as Ben already pointed out are grappling techniques in general regardless of whether they are applied standing or on the ground.

    Japanese terms aren't standard though so you can't make blanket statements. For example, in judo counter-attacks are kaeshi-waza, in kendo that refers to a subset of counters, we call counters in general oji-waza. Judo says mate to call a halt to a match, kendo says yame. Etc, etc.
    Interesting; I've been thinking about crosstraining in Judo to improve my throwing game somewhat, though I've been put off by one or two niggling concerns. I suppose I'll see how I feel about it after the summer.
  6. pepto_bismol is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2013 6:09pm


     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadzu View Post
    Interesting; I've been thinking about crosstraining in Judo to improve my throwing game somewhat, though I've been put off by one or two niggling concerns. I suppose I'll see how I feel about it after the summer.
    1. Tell your teacher you do not want to train with this guy because it inhibits your learning and because your instructor is failing at quality control, request that your instructor lets the white belts take over apathetic white belt duty.

    2. When your teacher denies that request, demand that he lowers your tuition because you are not getting the most out of your training and because you are being manipulated into playing the role of instructor when you are not being paid to be one.

    3. When he denies both of those requests, quit training there and join a decent judo school.

    You will learn more skillz that killz through this dialogue with your instructor in 30 seconds than you would by training with 'apathetic guy' for one hundred years
  7. Hadzu is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2013 12:40pm


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by pepto_bismol View Post
    1. Tell your teacher you do not want to train with this guy because it inhibits your learning and because your instructor is failing at quality control, request that your instructor lets the white belts take over apathetic white belt duty.

    2. When your teacher denies that request, demand that he lowers your tuition because you are not getting the most out of your training and because you are being manipulated into playing the role of instructor when you are not being paid to be one.

    3. When he denies both of those requests, quit training there and join a decent judo school.

    You will learn more skillz that killz through this dialogue with your instructor in 30 seconds than you would by training with 'apathetic guy' for one hundred years

    So, uh... Judo, in short? I'd like to at least see where we're at after the summer, if these problems remain to the same extent. I have a lot of cause to stick with my club, even if there are some slight annoyances every now and then; I owe so much to the club and the MA itself that I really want to stick with it, regardless of whether I conceivably cross-train or not.

    /Erik
  8. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2013 12:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadzu View Post
    I've been put off by one or two niggling concerns.

    Could you elaborate on this?
  9. Hadzu is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2013 1:59pm


     Style: Shoo Sheetzoo

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Could you elaborate on this?
    Certainly. Basically, my interest in Judo is almost exclusively as a supplement to my Ju-Jutsu, to specifically improve my throwing game. However, I have absolutely *no* desire to compete in Judo, not a bit. While I'm certain I could've been given the wrong impression at some point, I was under the impression that competing is more or less essential to getting promoted in Judo (in a vaguely timely manner), and that not competing to some extent defeats the purpose. My question to the many experienced Judoka out there, is would I be missing a major focal point of the style if I had no interest in competing, and would this limit my advancement? I'm all for training alive, but actually attending an official competition is simply not for me. Any thoughts, tips or cries of "Chicken!" would be immensely appreciated.

    /Erik
  10. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2013 2:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Why don't you want to compete?

    You're already tallying a record with your classmate.
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