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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is Kesa Gatame worth developing for BJJ?

    Hi all,

    I get Stephan Kesting's mail outs and he talks about Kesa Gatame being underutilized in BJJ.

    What do the rest of you think?

    If you agree what are some good ways to go in terms of making it a part of my game?

  2. #2
    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....
    Hanniballistic's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I play kesa quite a lot, although I learned it more from a CACC style base. Initially I learned a sequence from Marc Mcfann and later polished it a bit. Now with that said I tend to "crank" a lot in kesa, and it BJJ that will get you called out and possibly DQ'd

    Erik Paulson has some solid material on it

  3. #3
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am not a big fan of it for BJJ or MMA. Unless you're exceptionally comfortable from that position, chances are good your opponent's back-taking skills are going to be better than your scarf-holding skills.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.

  4. #4

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had some success with it while rolling. Works well for me as a pin, but I definitely prefer side mount for either transitioning or tapping a guy.

  5. #5
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's a lot safer with a gi on, as far as getting your back taken goes, but you still have to watch out.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  6. #6
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are we talking all forms, or just Hon Kesa Gatame, the standard hold the head version?
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  7. #7
    jnp's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I am not a big fan of it for BJJ or MMA. Unless you're exceptionally comfortable from that position, chances are good your opponent's back-taking skills are going to be better than your scarf-holding skills.
    One could easily argue that getting your back taken from the Hon version (near side arm and head only) is because the practitioner hasn't honed their skills when utilizing Hon Kesa.

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's actually a staple position for us. Some BJJ schools have a hard time dealing with it because they haven't been exposed to it enough. So if you don't like it drill it anyway so you know how to counter it if you have someone who does know how to use it.

  9. #9
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    One could easily argue that getting your back taken from the Hon version (near side arm and head only) is because the practitioner hasn't honed their skills when utilizing Hon Kesa.
    That's along my line of thought. No pin or whatever is foolproof. In any case, there are counters to having ones back taken from that position, transitions, etc., to learn.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  10. #10
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a stable pin, but a bit of a dead end positionally if the guy doesn't fall for the subs from there. That said, I've seen good BJJ guys who aren't that familiar with it get caught out, YMMV.

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