222349 Bullies, 4560 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 91 to 100 of 106
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 11 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. NeilG is offline
    NeilG's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatoon, Canada
    Posts
    1,272

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 11:03am


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Ouch, sword guy got "cut" to pieces in that one...

    Would you say that is normally how these sorts of matches go between equally skilled opponents? And can the butt end of the naginata be used ?
    Yes, equal skill the kendo guy usually gets creamed. Ishizuki tsuki (butt end thrust to the throat) used to be allowed but no longer due to the danger. Cut-like strikes with the butt have never been allowed in competition as oak vs people tends to go badly. The kata show use of both ends as after a miss with the blade it is logical to keep the motion going and follow up with the butt end. Real naginata often have a weight at the end for additional impact and balance against the blade.
  2. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,153

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 2:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Yes, equal skill the kendo guy usually gets creamed. Ishizuki tsuki (butt end thrust to the throat) used to be allowed but no longer due to the danger. Cut-like strikes with the butt have never been allowed in competition as oak vs people tends to go badly. The kata show use of both ends as after a miss with the blade it is logical to keep the motion going and follow up with the butt end. Real naginata often have a weight at the end for additional impact and balance against the blade.
    Thanks, that makes sense. In open terrain it's hard to imagine how a kenji would deal with a naginata bearing opponent. I'm sure they had methods to do so, but difficult nonetheless.

    So what we see is a crippled/limited version of the full potential use of a naginata (in the video) then, correct?

    One an only imagine how devastating it would be if the full range of use of the weapon was available in competitions.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. NeilG is offline
    NeilG's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatoon, Canada
    Posts
    1,272

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 2:35pm


     Style: Kendo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Thanks, that makes sense. In open terrain it's hard to imagine how a kenji would deal with a naginata bearing opponent. I'm sure they had methods to do so, but difficult nonetheless.
    They would likely just shoot them. Think of a sword like a modern sidearm. Most of the battlefield work was bow and spear.
    So what we see is a crippled/limited version of the full potential use of a naginata (in the video) then, correct?

    One an only imagine how devastating it would be if the full range of use of the weapon was available in competitions.
    Correct and correct.

    My experience against them is that you need to get them to commit to something so that you can close inside. One tactic is to bait them into attacking sune (the ankle), step over the swing as you move inside. If you can make that happen the naginata person is toast. However usually they have way more experience fighting kendoka than you do fighting them so it's not like they are not aware. You'll note the person in the video tended to keep pretty centred. Against each other the strategy is a bit different as there isn't this huge difference in maai.

    Another interesting thing you discover is that it is really hard to attack the sune with shinai without getting bent over and out of position. The only way to really do it is to swing single-handed, which many kendoka don't do well. I spent some time training jodan (position with sword overhead) which utilizes a lot of single-handed attacks, so I'm OK with that. However if you miss you are overcommitted and hey, they have this six foot thing that is terrific for knocking the sword out of your single-handed grip....

    It's huge fun. When I played Tanaka-sensei (the aforementioned little old lady) I was just laughing the whole time. Kept getting hit from all these odd angles as she fluidly shifted back and forth between various kamae, adjusting the range by slipping the naginata through her hands.
    Last edited by NeilG; 6/26/2013 2:40pm at .
  4. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,153

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 3:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    They would likely just shoot them. Think of a sword like a modern sidearm. Most of the battlefield work was bow and spear.
    Correct and correct.
    I was aware that the sword wasn't' necessarily the primary battlefield weapon in Japan, contrary to popular belief. If I recall correctly, primary weapons changed over time and was related to the change from single combat to masses of lesser trained troops to firearms then the long "peace" of the Tokugawa era.

    It's interesting, the FMA seem to me to be more personal combat arts, not battlefield related so much (FMA guys will correct me if incorrect I"m sure!). A weak analogy might be the changes in emphasis more towards the sword and personal combat after 1603 in Japan.

    My experience against them is that you need to get them to commit to something so that you can close inside. One tactic is to bait them into attacking sune (the ankle), step over the swing as you move inside. If you can make that happen the naginata person is toast. However usually they have way more experience fighting kendoka than you do fighting them so it's not like they are not aware. You'll note the person in the video tended to keep pretty centred. Against each other the strategy is a bit different as there isn't this huge difference in maai.
    Yeah, right at first the naginata made a big sweeping attack at the anke, the kendoka hopped over and tried to close the distance. That was pretty cool to watch.

    I've watched naginata vs naginata on YouTube, it's pretty cool stuff.

    Another interesting thing you discover is that it is really hard to attack the sune with shinai without getting bent over and out of position. The only way to really do it is to swing single-handed, which many kendoka don't do well. I spent some time training jodan (position with sword overhead) which utilizes a lot of single-handed attacks, so I'm OK with that. However if you miss you are overcommitted and hey, they have this six foot thing that is terrific for knocking the sword out of your single-handed grip....

    It's huge fun. When I played Tanaka-sensei (the aforementioned little old lady) I was just laughing the whole time. Kept getting hit from all these odd angles as she fluidly shifted back and forth between various kamae, adjusting the range by slipping the naginata through her hands.
    That pesky posture thing again...crops up in Judo as well, doesn't it? Nothing like getting your butt kicked by a little old grandma.

    Now we need to arrange a throw down and have FMA vs JMA, that would be interesting. Maybe that has happened at Dog Brothers gathering(s), who knows?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. Permalost is online now
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,480

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 4:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Now we need to arrange a throw down and have FMA vs JMA, that would be interesting. Maybe that has happened at Dog Brothers gathering(s), who knows?
    One of the regular Dog Bros fighters has shown very good skill in fighting double sticks and stuffing takedown attempts. I talked to him one time and asked about his background. He said a lot of what he did was aikido, oddly enough.

    A guy who sometimes comes to my informal sparring group has a JMA background. We spar with knives and he has experience in tantojutsu, so its been interesting seeing that approach. They have quite a few techniques/approaches to someone trying to control your weapon arm.

    IIRC the Dog Brothers originally had some JMA/kobudo guys to fight with back in the day. They would use a thumbs-facing-each-other grip on a bo and alternate forehand strikes with the ends, a tactic they now call "Little Johnning" which is not really recommended (they tend to prefer a single end grip).
  6. Chili Pepper is offline
    Chili Pepper's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,164

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 5:54pm


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    It's interesting, the FMA seem to me to be more personal combat arts, not battlefield related so much (FMA guys will correct me if incorrect I"m sure!).
    I expect FMA battlefield arts died at the muzzle end of a large number of Krag Jorgensen rifles. After the American conquest, the people who had such knowledge to pass on were probably already dead.
  7. Permalost is online now
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,480

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 5:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Pepper View Post
    I expect FMA battlefield arts died at the muzzle end of a large number of Krag Jorgensen rifles. After the American conquest, the people who had such knowledge to pass on were probably already dead.
    Also, in my experience at least, most FMA groups don't have enough people to simulate a battlefield anyway.
  8. Honey Badger is offline
    Honey Badger's Avatar

    Sardonic or Sarcastic?

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,058

    Posted On:
    6/26/2013 9:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Filipino Kun Tao, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Pepper View Post
    I expect FMA battlefield arts died at the muzzle end of a large number of Krag Jorgensen rifles. After the American conquest, the people who had such knowledge to pass on were probably already dead.
    The development of the Colt Model 1911 .45 was heavily influenced by field experiences against the native Filipinos. They needed 1 shot stops from a pistol to counter close range blade attacks where the rifle was to unwieldy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I would so do Buttsecks.
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,006

    Posted On:
    6/27/2013 7:58am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post

    Now we need to arrange a throw down and have FMA vs JMA, that would be interesting. Maybe that has happened at Dog Brothers gathering(s), who knows?
    My teacher has a primary background in JMA with cross training in FMA. I personally couldn't tell you where one ends and the other begins, but he can. But usually he says this techniqu is called ...in Japanese and ...in FMA. With only slight differences.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  10. Chili Pepper is offline
    Chili Pepper's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,164

    Posted On:
    6/27/2013 10:26am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Honey Badger View Post
    The development of the Colt Model 1911 .45 was heavily influenced by field experiences against the native Filipinos. They needed 1 shot stops from a pistol to counter close range blade attacks where the rifle was to unwieldy.
    Thing is, how many soldiers get issued a pistol? Rifles, artillery, ship-based artillery, and a willingness to shoot just about anyone were what carried the day. (qv. Swish of the Kris)
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 11 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.