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  1. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 10:54am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    So, you guys suck for complaining about this match since apparently none of you even watched it.
    You might want to work on that reading comprehension Kint.


    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    All that said, I just watched the Keenan-Miyao match, and I have to admit, Paulo worked his ass off. Perhaps Keenan was tired, but with the exception of a few guard pass attempts, he used little more than his size and base to stymie Miyao's attacks. Regardless, there is absolutely no doubt who won. Miyao stayed active and attacking for the entire match.
    I stated my opinion on the 50/50 position in my earlier post because it agrees with my brother's. I even admitted that my opinion was biased due to my wrestling background. However, nowhere in my discussion of the Keenan-Miyao match did I state that they used the 50/50 position. I can see how you thought I implied it because that paragraph followed my interpretation of their match, but the bottom line is you skimmed my post without taking the time to pay attention to what I typed.

    I didn't even complain about it, rather, I gave credit to Miyao for working his ass off during the entire match.
  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 11:07am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I saw that you said you watched it, and intentionally ignored it because the rest of your post made it clear that while you might have played the video, you either didn't actually pay any attention to it, or your 50/50 hate was so strong that it overwhelmed what actually happened in the match.
  3. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 11:43am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I saw that you said you watched it, and intentionally ignored it because the rest of your post made it clear that while you might have played the video, you either didn't actually pay any attention to it, or your 50/50 hate was so strong that it overwhelmed what actually happened in the match.
    How does giving credit to Paulo's constant, dynamic attacking and the fact that he clearly won the match equal hate in your opinion? Are you referring to my dislike of the double guard pull? I only dislike the act of both players pulling guard at the same time. All credit to Miyao for maintaining a strong offense during the entire match. I actually enjoyed watching that match due to Paulo's constant attacking.

    It's funny you type that because I told NWP via text that I my post I was writing was in agreement with your first post more than his.
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 12:17pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    How does giving credit to Paulo's constant, dynamic attacking and the fact that he clearly won the match equal hate in your opinion? Are you referring to my dislike of the double guard pull? I only dislike the act of both players pulling guard at the same time. All credit to Miyao for maintaining a strong offense during the entire match. I actually enjoyed watching that match due to Paulo's constant attacking.

    It's funny you type that because I told NWP via text that I my post I was writing was in agreement with your first post more than his.
    Doesn't matter, I've had no decent arguments in weeks. I would rather bicker with you two over what constitutes 'real jiujitsu' than talk about damn near anything else on the internet.

    And I still don't see the double guard pull as any worse than two guys gripped up and ankle kicking, or collar and elbow tied and dancing around in a circle.
  5. Nwp is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 1:14pm

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     Style: Wrestling, Bjj

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Amazingly bitchy of you though to claim we suck, and that we never watched it because our opinion of sit fighting doesn't agree with yours. You
    are arguing. I am disagreeing.

    Nobody mentioned wanting to see two people stand up and kick ankle for four minutes either. That drives me crazy too, as do most forms of stalling and stagnation. Especially when I stall because I'm worn out. It happens, to them every time they meet apparently.

    They are not paid to entertain me, I'm sure they don't care what I think.
    But if you want to sit and play ankle grip fight for half a match- I refuse to appreciate it as
    'highest' level Bjj.

    More like 'I'm gonna go for one move to the back because its pop and I depend on it'!

    You however can love it all you want, until you wear a hole in your superman underoos from scooting around all day long and developing mange on your cheeks. Be my guest.
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 1:23pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nwp View Post
    Amazingly bitchy of you though to claim we suck, and that we never watched it because our opinion of sit fighting doesn't agree with yours. You
    are arguing. I am disagreeing.

    Nobody mentioned wanting to see two people stand up and kick ankle for four minutes either. That drives me crazy too, as do most forms of stalling and stagnation. Especially when I stall because I'm worn out. It happens, to them every time they meet apparently.

    They are not paid to entertain me, I'm sure they don't care what I think.
    But if you want to sit and play ankle grip fight for half a match- I refuse to appreciate it as
    'highest' level Bjj.

    More like 'I'm gonna go for one move to the back because its pop and I depend on it'!

    You however can love it all you want, until you wear a hole in your superman underoos from scooting around all day long and developing mange on your cheeks. Be my guest.

    My butt cheeks are thoroughly calloused thank you very much.

    Actually, if you guys don't mind transitioning to listlessly sniping at each other into an actual discussion about stalling that would be fun.

    I guess I have a strange view on 'stalling'. To me it's never stalling when both people are in a neutral position. That's the place where peoples wills clash and the match is decided based on who can wrest control from their opponent. If you're working, even if it's just grip fighting, pushing against each other, or ankle kicking, then you're looking for that opportunity to take control. At the highest levels the tiniest mistake can end it for you, so I don't expect to see a lot of high risk activity at the very top.

    For me, I really only hate to see stalling if someone is up on points, but is currently in an inferior position and refusing to move. That's the place that burns me up. Anywhere else I don't really see as stalling. If you're a head then controlling from a superior position is your job. If you're neutral then I don't expect you to make a move without mitigating your risk.

    Is it really that distasteful for you guys to watch an intense grip battle that you know could at any moment result in one competitor transitioning swiftly to the others back, or spark a chain of sweeps and resweeps, just because two people are sitting instead of standing?
  7. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 2:19pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Is it really that distasteful for you guys to watch an intense grip battle that you know could at any moment result in one competitor transitioning swiftly to the others back, or spark a chain of sweeps and resweeps, just because two people are sitting instead of standing?
    Not at all. Like I said, I enjoyed watching that match. Miyao was constantly grip fighting, looking to sweep to take Cornelius' back and attacking in general. I don't mind watching a 50/50 match either if both opponent's are working to advance.

    I don't even think we're really disagreeing about much since I'm aware of my own personal bias. I realize that just because I don't like a position, that doesn't mean the position doesn't have merit.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 2:25pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Not at all. Like I said, I enjoyed watching that match. Miyao was constantly grip fighting, looking to sweep to take Cornelius' back and attacking in general. I don't mind watching a 50/50 match either if both opponent's are working to advance.

    I don't even think we're really disagreeing about much since I'm aware of my own personal bias. I realize that just because I don't like a position, that doesn't mean the position doesn't have merit.

    Well, really DKJr and to a lesser extent NWP should be taking that side of things. DK was 'bored out of his mind' and NWP wanted another double DQ despite the level of work. You're too sensible to have a proper argument with JNP, go away.
  9. Nwp is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 3:28pm

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     Style: Wrestling, Bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As you are tired of the hate, I am tired of watching the five minute scissor from them again.

    I said the match was **** (specifically meant the first half to correct myself), because
    it happened the same way not once, but three times! They might have met another time as well because I think Keenan has beaten him twice in absolute but can't remember).

    Abu Dhabi pro double DQ was less active, hence the dq. They got stood up and double guard pulled two or three times before the Dq. The time before that I saw them meet it seemed novel, no biggie.

    After 3 times its like "damn, he's not gonna give up the berimbolo so move on". That is my perspective, that it has been repetitive.

    And originally stated in the op I was just happy to see the underdog Paulo get the win because he has lost previously.

    Now, I will highlight that people's styles will match up similarly over and over when they meet. But I was hoping his time it would be a little different. And it was, around 4:30 in!

    Paulo was certainly way more active than Keenan, I just didn't see it as dynamic until into the 6th minute. And it's not like I am near their level and assuming i know better. I'm just saying it was a repeat of their previous unexciting match ups. When they are normally very exciting players.

    To give some credit to their hesitancy to come on top, the guy who did- lost.
    Maybe that's why neither of them want to, they each have such awesome guards. I am aware of that.

    I don't consider it stalling tho. They were hunting grips and Paulo was rolling trying to get something going. But there was nothing close or any sweep or counter sweep action in the first 4 min that you mentioned they were going for. It was just grip fighting. I don't consider it stalling, but definitely stagnating. Especially the third or fourth fight in for them.
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2013 7:10pm

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are your takes on the gentleman's agreement thing?
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