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  1. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 7:37am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    - What techniques you teach (this is probably a no-brainer)
    Situational awareness. Flicker jabs, elbows, forearm chops, knees, soccer kicks, stomps. Arm & leg trap mount escape. Basic defanging with improvised weapons. Disengagement and then running like hell. The title of the course is Escape to Gain Safety, not Beat Up My Rapist.

    I also do a separate course in pepper spray.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    - How these techniques are presented & taught to the class
    In applied isolation, then drilled on pads, then drilled with a padded instructor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    - How the techniques are tested... Do you spar or closely simulate a non-scripted confrontation situation in your SD course? Or do you have prescribed attacks against which participants must defend themselves?
    Drilled individually & in non-scripted confrontation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    - Do the class sizes vary much between SD participants and MA students?
    Everything I teach is done in small group. Never more than 10 students.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    This is probably the biggest and most difficult to answer - how would you define "competency" in SD vs MA? What skills would a person need to possess in order to be considered competent in one or both of these things?
    The question does not apply to the subject. A "self-defense course" is inherently limited in scope, and no level of competence is, can, or should be judged. Someone attending a self-defense course is not going to become proficient in the the techniques and concepts taught in a day or a week. These are persishable if the attendee does not continue to train. The goal of a self-defense course is to give the course taker something to go on, an idea, a strategy that will hopefully at some point save their life through a moment's action.

    It should be noted though that my school is 50% women...and all of the women except Lady Auslander decided to sign up after taking my self-defense course.

    Lady Auslander signed up so I would know exactly what would happen to my testicles if I ever cheat on her.
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 7:42am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    gang rape + pepper spray equals at least two guys who are now pissed off and blinded but totally functional otherwise.

    Not the best situation.

    Hopefully it would smash morale and break their will to continue the rape train ...or distract them enough to run. Pepper spray with die in it is always a good choice to help make and identify the attackers.
    A direct hit with pepper spray does not leave you totally functional. Unless you are the 1% of the population completely immune, you are debilatated. You are not doing anything but shaking your head trying to clear your eyes. You have likely lost your balance due to the inability to see. Unless you start flushing your eyes out immediately or happen to have a couple other tricks up your sleeve which I will not post here, you're out of action for 20 minutes to an hour.

    Taking a direct hit with pepper spray sucks, even a glancing strike is debilitating. You are not functional at all.
    Last edited by Jiggle Butt; 6/05/2013 7:59am at .
  3. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 8:02am

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    A direct hit with pepper spray does not leave you totally functional. Unless you are the 1% of the population completely immune, you are debilatated. You are not doing anything but shaking your head trying to clear your eyes. You have likely lost your balance due to the inability to see.

    Taking a direct hit with pepper spray sucks, even a glancing strike is debilitating. You are not functional at all.
    I was sprayed when I was 16, in county jail. "It sucked" was an understatement of epic levels. I got sprayed again when I was 18, by a friend of a friend when we were rough housing in dudes house. It turned into an actual drunken fight and we broke some stuff and wouldn't stop.
    Not nearly as bad, at all. Slight respiratory ,eyes swelled mostly shut, but no complete "oh my god my face is melting off, please no water just pluck my eyes out and take my ears, nose, throat, and skin with it, I will just grow it all back later" reaction like with the stuff the Officers had.

    This was like 18 years ago, have the average consumer sprays gotten that much better?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 8:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been sprayed breaking a fight. It sucks but doesn't incapacitate.

    I don't recommend sprays as reliable SD tools against commited attackers at arms/grappling distance.
  5. theAsthmatic is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 10:07am


     Style: sambo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find the best form of self defense to be a loyal pet bear. Walk down the street with one of those and nobody will want to mess with you.

    Bear > small knife.
  6. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 10:15am


     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    Situational awareness. Flicker jabs, elbows, forearm chops, knees, soccer kicks, stomps. Arm & leg trap mount escape. Basic defanging with improvised weapons. Disengagement and then running like hell. The title of the course is Escape to Gain Safety, not Beat Up My Rapist.

    I also do a separate course in pepper spray.



    In applied isolation, then drilled on pads, then drilled with a padded instructor.



    Drilled individually & in non-scripted confrontation.



    Everything I teach is done in small group. Never more than 10 students.



    The question does not apply to the subject. A "self-defense course" is inherently limited in scope, and no level of competence is, can, or should be judged. Someone attending a self-defense course is not going to become proficient in the the techniques and concepts taught in a day or a week. These are persishable if the attendee does not continue to train. The goal of a self-defense course is to give the course taker something to go on, an idea, a strategy that will hopefully at some point save their life through a moment's action.

    It should be noted though that my school is 50% women...and all of the women except Lady Auslander decided to sign up after taking my self-defense course.

    Lady Auslander signed up so I would know exactly what would happen to my testicles if I ever cheat on her.
    Thanks Der, that's really great stuff, particularly what you were saying about competence. It seems like the more I look into it - both on and off bullshido - the more it seems like a SD course would be a useful supplement to training in an alive MA, since there is generally a much higher focus on situational awareness, prevention and in some cases de-escalation than in a normal MA class.

    It seems that issues can come up particularly in the marketing for these courses and the management of participant's expectations. If they aren't handled properly they can lead the participant to think that in a few days they can learn all they need to defend themselves, especially if the instructor isn't honest and realistic about what the course can actually do for them, but I'll have to do a bit more legwork before I've got any qualitative data on that.

    So far out of the people I've posed the subject to the response has overwhelmingly been that while a SD course might serve to help bolster your confidence or broaden your knowledge base it can't be used in isolation as a replacement for consistent learning and practice.

    I've also been thinking about whether, if you've been assaulted, it's more beneficial to start a MA course right off the bat or transition through an SD course first. Clearly you've had major success with the latter, but do you think a student would benefit equally from just starting to come to regular classes, or does the SD course give students an edge?

    I hope these don't seem like silly questions.When it comes to the comparative benefits on offer by SD and MA courses I haven't got the breadth of information that you & other members on here have to draw on and even though I plan to deal with it fairly briefly it's one of those topics where the more solid the information you can base your writing on the better.
  7. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 10:18am


     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    I've been sprayed breaking a fight. It sucks but doesn't incapacitate.

    I don't recommend sprays as reliable SD tools against commited attackers at arms/grappling distance.
    Since they're airborne, isn't there a risk that some of the spray could blow or bounce back in your face and disadvantage you as well?
  8. Fuzzy is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 10:24am


     Style: DocePares/MMA(YawYan)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    Since they're airborne, isn't there a risk that some of the spray could blow or bounce back in your face and disadvantage you as well?
    My uncle incapacitated himself by firing my mom's gas pistol without checking which way the wind was blowing.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 10:36am

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Screaming, running, and jumping are three great self defense skills.

    There are many others and relatively few of them are martial in nature. As many other smart posters have put it, learning self defense is about discovering your own fight/flight reflex and how to use it to help keep you alive. That includes knowing when to flee, or whether you could survive a fight encounter.

    Therefore my self defense response to encountering three other guys with sticks, is running the **** away at top rabbit speed.

    A good martial art, on the other hand, should be about maximizing your fight potential, your ability to sustain and overcome physical trauma.

    If you "train" a martial art and you are not being routinely jarred out of your sleepy head by contact (be it on the ground or standing), you are ONLY attempting to mentally prepare for a physical confrontation. That strategy is doomed to fail without also physically preparing for one, and the combination of BOTH mental and physical training is what makes an art "martial".
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 6/05/2013 10:40am at .
  10. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2013 11:10am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    This was like 18 years ago, have the average consumer sprays gotten that much better?
    My understanding is that as time has progressed, OC sprays have pretty much become the standard, while CS or CN or some combination was used in the past, both for law enforcement and civilian sprays. While they're all irritants, OC is also an inflammatory agent, meaning it'll swell up the eyes and throat independent of a pain response. So, even if the pain isn't incapacitating it has physiological effects.
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