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  1. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2013 8:56pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is the objective of training in SD?

    What is the objective of training in MA?

    (Yes, obviously, there can be some overlap).

    I won't reiterate what has already been stated in this thread.

    In my kinesiology-undergrad days, everything we did was based on this principle:

    The more closely one's training resembles the situation one is training for, the more effective that training is.


    One thing that means is, you need instructors who have actually dealt with the situations they're training you to face. Otherwise, it's all theory, all abstraction. If what they claim is that they're teaching SD, is it a good idea to have people coming out of such "training" thinking they can actually defend themselves?

    As for MA, Katje, you might need to be more specific in your question. Modern (mis)usage has made the term so vague and nebulous that it can mean anything from MMA to eighty-year-olds doing ultraslow chi-balls in a city park--and just about everything in between. The term often has--or claims--cultural content not necessarily claimed in SD courses and, for that reason among others, MA (whatever its stated objectives) tend to take longer to learn. As a matter of fact, many SD trainers emphasize the point that what they teach doesn't take years to learn.

    Again, there may be some overlap between MA and SD, but that must not be assumed just because it's so advertised.
  2. Zod is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2013 10:14pm


     Style: Weight Lifting,Combatives

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Real self defense is awareness, good judgement, fast comfy shoes, a small blade, a willingness to part with your belongings, a CCW permit and a CCW you are trained in how to employ and maintain.

    Anything else is bullshit Martialbation.
    I can't say I agree with the 'small blade' part. Deploying a weapon in the midst of getting jumped is not all that easy and I think that underlining that fact should be part of any good self defense course. Brandishing a weapon to preemptively stop a potential mugging or something doesn't seem terribly wise but probably will work in some cases (and be a felony in others).
  3. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 12:35pm


     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the responses guys! It seems from what I understand about self defence courses in general and what has been written here that a good self-defence course will focus on 3 aspects of defense - situational awareness (prevention), the attack and the getaway, with the main focus being on the prevention part.

    Vieux you make a good point, when I talk about a martial art I'm essentially referring to a codified system of combat practice, whatever the actual style may be (judo, wrestling, boxing, and so on). It would naturally take much longer because the syllabus would be far more extensive and complex. I wanted to know what type of competencies MA vs SD focussed on and how those competencies would be taught and tested, and it seems like this has been answered now.

    I'm writing an article about starting martial arts following a sexual assault and I thought it was important that I clarify the questions that I asked in the OP, since I'd like to cover what a self-defence course will offer a person in comparison to a full martial arts system and what they can expect to get out of each.

    Huge thanks to everyone for their contributions, the info is really helpful!
  4. baby_cart is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:12pm


     Style: xBJJ xTKD ninpo nusubito

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the usual self-defense scenarios (barring prior awareness of the threat) that require physical intervention usually start at clinch range, without the clinch of course. usual methods of attack are blitz-strike(strike to KO or kill, drive-by shootings also fall under this category, albeit with a different range), immobilize and strike , and immobilize and control (coming near you and poking a knife to your side falls under this category).

    going to ground takes up too much time (and the danger of AIDS needles). Keeping it a stand-up encounter on the side of the defender is a training goal. your techniques and mindset must have a "wham-bam-slam-thank you ma'am" approach.

    and running, RUNNING IS A MUST. included in this are approaches to clothing and footwear.

    and of course, training to overcome the inhibition of bashing someone's head in so he'll look like a ninja turtle.
  5. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:29pm


     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The inhibition thing is actually a very interesting subject all on its own. In the 2.5yrs I did kung fu and dabbled in a few other things 99% of the girls had trouble committing to strikes or outwardly showing aggression. I've never had too much of a problem with striking, but even I had issues with things like kiai-ing in goju ryu. I wonder if anyone else has found the same?
  6. JingMerchant! is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:32pm


     Style: Judo, baby! Yeah!

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Real self defense is awareness, good judgement, fast comfy shoes, a small blade, a willingness to part with your belongings, a CCW permit and a CCW you are trained in how to employ and maintain.

    Anything else is bullshit Martialbation.
    One small snag here, is the fact the CCW is illegal here in the UK. Not to mention our restrictive knife laws.

    Any and all suggestions need to bear this in mind... In fact, this might make an interesting sub-category or side thread. Strategies for Self-defence, when CCW is not an option.
    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
    And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!
  7. baby_cart is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:50pm


     Style: xBJJ xTKD ninpo nusubito

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    The inhibition thing is actually a very interesting subject all on its own. In the 2.5yrs I did kung fu and dabbled in a few other things 99% of the girls had trouble committing to strikes or outwardly showing aggression. I've never had too much of a problem with striking, but even I had issues with things like kiai-ing in goju ryu. I wonder if anyone else has found the same?

    not for me, probably because of different culture. one thing i did find though, most of the ladies here prefer striking arts to grappling. some of them I'd talked with rather have the fight distant, not literally face-to-face with minimal prolonged physical contact(e.g. clinching). methinks it's the depersonalization thingy...
  8. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    The inhibition thing is actually a very interesting subject all on its own. In the 2.5yrs I did kung fu and dabbled in a few other things 99% of the girls had trouble committing to strikes or outwardly showing aggression. I've never had too much of a problem with striking, but even I had issues with things like kiai-ing in goju ryu. I wonder if anyone else has found the same?
    Teaching and practicing the "roar" was one of the first things I did in my courses. Thinking back, I can't remember anyone having a problem with it, though that might be a matter of self-selection; people who commit to a self defense training course tend to be into empowerment in various other ways. The problem, of course, is that people with low self-esteem seldom enroll in the first place, because they don't fundamentally believe that they're worth defending.
  9. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 4:03pm


     Style: Escrima n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    Teaching and practicing the "roar" was one of the first things I did in my courses. Thinking back, I can't remember anyone having a problem with it, though that might be a matter of self-selection; people who commit to a self defense training course tend to be into empowerment in various other ways. The problem, of course, is that people with low self-esteem seldom enroll in the first place, because they don't fundamentally believe that they're worth defending.
    That's very thought-provoking. When I was dabbling in goju I had recently been attacked, so there could well be a correlation. Certainly in fanchento I didn't have any problems committing to strikes in sparring with other people, although I did still have some pretty panicky moments when the blows were raining down and I got overstimulated or I got pinned in grappling. I wonder if I could kiai now? Will have to try it out and report back!
  10. Stickybomb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 4:16pm


     Style: judo, boxing -noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (as I found out (surprise, surprise...) you can't be good at self defense, if you're not good in a solid martial art or five ----------I split into the dreamland and leave the thread back to the worthy and capable)
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