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**SifuAbel** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 5:25am

As much as some of you are salivating at this vid. I'm going on the record that this fight was complete BS. The Kung fu San Soo guy was possibly the WORST fighter I have ever seen. He is NOT representative of kung fu in ANY way. His approach was laughable and his technique was beginner stuff. This branch of KFSS doesn't even free spar. How did he expect to win against a pro fighter? I also remember reading way back that the fight was supposed to be with a local practitioner and was canceled with John Marsh as a replacement. I don't even think this guy knew whom he was fighting. Talk about bait and switch. As far as he knew it was another "local amatuer". Can you say "ringer"?
So in future, I would like to thank you to not point this out as the "great victory over kung fu". If anything it was a victory over a mcdojo, not the totality of CMA.

"and stand-up styles that don't take steps like adopting strong stances "

Kung fu doesn't develop strong stances? Thats news to me.

And before I get the naplam on me, let me state I don't know Dim Mak.

**Izru** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 5:47am

Just thought I'd weigh in....first, let me say that I don't have a total knowledge of Kung Fu or such, so corrections are appreciated, but I found it interesting that the Kung Fu practicioner threw a roundhouse style kick as the first move against a fighter who was obviously a wrestler...besides the fact that it was a dumb move, I believe most traditional Kung Fu styles utilize low and crescent kicks almost exclusively...and only then after the range has been closed, as distractions or strikes while the hands are occupied...in conclusion, same thing everyone else has said...the KF guy didn't seem to know anything about Kung Fu, let alone fighting....

*First post--be gentle*
Izru- a total n00b

**Blad3** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 10:56pm

I think this is excellent - I believe that this fighter is a true KungFu stylist, possibly quite advanced. On the other hand the MMA fighter may not have been - for instance he didn't go for the mount (after his "intructor" told him to.)

I believe this video is real and is a valid example of KungFU vs Sports/FC/MMA/NHB - a relatively inexperienced MMA fighter (Blue belt, excellent but not exactly Purple or anything, almost definitely not a professional MT/boxer practioneer) vs a possible KungFu master, which is what is claimed in an above post [here].

Excellent, 9/10 (10/10 if they were both of relatively equal size which they almost are, but more importanly if they were both very experinced, which I doubt at least the MMA was.) :)

ps. No disrespect to KungFu practioneers or the "MMA/Grappler MT/Boxer" guy involved ;)

**SifuAbel** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 11:17pm

"No disrespect to KungFu practioneers or the "MMA/Grappler MT/Boxer" guy involved ;)"

You're kidding right?
You beleive this guy was a true kung fu stylist and John Marsh is a nobody?
You've got to be either the biggest troll on the planet or the biggest idiot. Maybe both.

Edited by - Kungfudoeswork on July 21 2002 23:18:47

**Blad3** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 11:38pm

"John Marsh a bluebelt under Royce Gracie"
"Sifu"

Sorry, I just thought that this told me that what I said in my above post was correct.

No i haven't heard of John Marsh and I don't see why a KungFu "sifu" would challenge someone who was that experienced if he wasn't himself (or even despite the MMA fighter's experince, i would've thought the Kungfu "sifu" would have/should have been experineced, if not naive/insane.)

As I said no disrespect or offence meant. :)

**Phrost** · Posted On: 7/21/2002 11:52pm

And before I get the naplam on me, let me state I don't know Dim Mak.

You get cool points for that.

**Mercurius** · Posted On: 7/22/2002 12:21am

Hey KungFuDoesWork, you genius, I was talking about that guy's stances when he rushed in dancing around like he was trying to juke the guy.

Notwithstanding that several Kung Fu stances either look like they could be blown over by a strong wind or like you're trying to say "Please hit me in the face."

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And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Iron Arahat** · Posted On: 7/22/2002 12:40am

Information on John Marsh:

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=9

Some background:

"What is did prove is the fallacy of thinking you know your skills when you never really test them.

To illustrate my point, let me tell you the story of John's fight. Originally, someone else was going to fight the "kung fu master" in question. However, since $5,000. was on the line and the kung fu camp had said they would fight anyone, John was approached about doing the fight. The BJJ camp knew that John was the best choice to ensure victory. This is because John trained and fought competitively against other fighters, including the original person who was going to fight the kung fu man. John was far from the highest ranking, being only a purple belt in BJJ at the time. However, the BJJ camp knew John was their best choice based on the objective data, even though he was not the most experienced or the highest ranking, or even the biggest.

The kung fu side, on the other hand, had no way to objectively determine who was their best fighter. They didn't regularly test their skills in competitions, or even in training against 100% resisting opponents. Because of this, the only way they had to judge who was the "best" was by who was the highest ranking, knew the most techniques, could beat everyone in "tag/point fighting" practice sessions, and who could perform his techniques with the best form. Based on this, the "kung fu master" was considered to be their best choice, although they had several practitioners who were John's size or bigger. As a matter of fact, one of the gentlemen from their school is shown in the background during the fight. At about 6'6" and 290 lbs., he dwarfed John. The kung fu school assumed he was not as good a choice as the smaller "master."

The BJJ side had multiple objective proofs for John being the best choice for the fight. Unfortunately, for the kung fu school, they had to make their choice based on subjective criteria, since they never actually used their "deadly" techniques at 100% against 100% resisting opponents."

Food for thought.

**Blad3** · Posted On: 7/22/2002 1:26am

ok . Good summary (thought the mma guy was a blueblet though.) Didn't realize he was a proffesional fighter

**Mercurius** · Posted On: 7/22/2002 2:18am

Yeah, good summary, pretty informative about the circumstances and congruous with what we see on the video.

Perhaps another student(bigger or otherwise) would've had a "martial sense" more suited to dealing with the MMA guy, along with a healthy fear of him, as opposed to Fred Ettish-esque blind confidence.

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And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!