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  1. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2013 5:37am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Both, these are open ballet initiatives anyone registered to vote in that county can do so.

    What's odd is that in the 2012 election, according to the levy document:



    So in typical fashion, they were all for it until they were asked to help pay for it and then they chose to do without police response weekday evenings and all weekend, saving a couple hundred dollars a year. Like DCS said, you get what you pay for.

    http://www.co.josephine.or.us/files/r13010publicsafetytaxlevy.pdf


    I dunno, that money can add up, and if you did pay the money, you wouldn't necessarily get a true home invasion solution. You'd just get an officer who might be able to respond to your call but would probably arrive too late. You'd actually need a bunch of officers and tactical aids and weapons for them to deal with a truly hardcore situation as well.

    So on some level I think, why not just save the couple hundred dollars a year, and invest in a WASR-10 AK 47 for a few hundred bucks? Then get a few reliable magazines, and a bunch of Wolf 7.62x39 hollow point ammo. Spring for some body armor like a level IIIA vest, or level IV if you can get it, and see if you can get a PAGST helmet from the surplus store.

    Setting the body armor aside, which is pretty expensive, with just the AK, mags, and ammo, you're kind of set for life with a reasonable home defense capability for the price of only 3-5 years of police protection.

    I imagine that not having any responding officers for your area might help if something ever went to trial. Your lawyer could be like, "My client was more justified than most in nailing the perp to the wall with his AK because THERE ARE LITERALLY NO COPS THAT SERVE HIS AREA!!!" I think that even a soi-disant progressive would be a lot more understanding upon learning that for all intents and purposes in your area there's no police service.

    I guess that as far as the costs go, I'm assuming the homeowner has prior training, and doesn't need to blow thousands on tactical rifle and CQB lessons.

    And then to prevent theft of the rifle when you're not around, I guess you'd need some way to secure it in the trunk of your car or something so you can always have it with you when you're coming home, instead of needing to be home before the perp arrives in order to access it.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  2. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2013 8:43am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    I dunno, that money can add up, and if you did pay the money, you wouldn't necessarily get a true home invasion solution.
    Police work includes more things than dealing with home invaders.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2013 8:51am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that would be a pretty shitty situation to live in. It works as long as all of the people are working toward the same goal. Which would be to live in harmony. But the second people start deciding they don't have to abide by trafic laws, nuisance laws, civil rights, and criminal laws, the whole place could break out in anarchy. Paying a little bit of money a year to provice officer presence, which keeps most of those in check is a small price to pay, in my opinion.

    Otherwise you may as well buy a bunch of tactical gear and have to clear every building you walk into. That would get old, and hot in the summer time.
    Combatives training log.

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  4. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2013 5:44pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those arguments that money invested in taxes (and thus invested in a proper police force) is money better used for home-security forget that self-defense is not a realistic option for many.

    Old people, disabled people, poor people, children and many other groups do not have that option. And each and every one may end up as a member of those groups, which (if ethical reasons are not enough) makes this an issue of the community. Thus taxes are of course in order, be it local or federal or national taxes.

    It is just a shame that the richest nation in the world is not able to provide the basic functions which were the reason to create a nation in the first place.
  5. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 10:57am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nils View Post
    Those arguments that money invested in taxes (and thus invested in a proper police force) is money better used for home-security forget that self-defense is not a realistic option for many.

    Old people, disabled people, poor people, children and many other groups do not have that option. And each and every one may end up as a member of those groups, which (if ethical reasons are not enough) makes this an issue of the community. Thus taxes are of course in order, be it local or federal or national taxes.

    It is just a shame that the richest nation in the world is not able to provide the basic functions which were the reason to create a nation in the first place.
    -old, disabled, and poor people can all pull a trigger.
    -the most well-funded police force can't be everywhere at once; they'd still arrive after the fact in their gold cop cars with silver bullet machine guns or whatever.
  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 12:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A properly funded public safety service is a crime deterrent as well as incident response service.

    Where criminals know the police won't be showing up, there can only be lawlessness.
  7. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 1:24pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is there a single jurisdiction, worldwide, that could 100% guarantee a timely response--even with the best of funding?

    The wisest thing to do is prepare for the worst in case that response is not forthcoming.

    One can argue all day about the best way--tactically, legally and otherwise--to prepare for the worst, and one can remind everyone not to take the law into one's own hands.

    However, it would be advisable for anyone to prepare to be on one's own, should that ever be necessary.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 2:38pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is just a shame that the richest nation in the world is not able to provide the basic functions which were the reason to create a nation in the first place.
    It is a shame people like hyperbole. I know you aren't suggesting we turn America into a police state? The government needs funding, people vote against funding, and the result is services don't get funded. Now, your argument is the richest nation in the world should fund all of these municipalities right? The same place where MILLIONS of people cry, please read our media, about government controlling everything? These SAME PEOPLE who voted not to raise taxes to fund their own area. So, instead you want to blame the government for following the will of the people?
    Here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
    Asserts the sovereignty of each state, except for the specific powers delegated to the confederation government, i.e. "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."
    Hmmmmmm............
    Just saying, it was founded on individual Independence coming together in times of war.
  9. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 7:53pm


     Style: FormerShotokan,Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    old, disabled, and poor people can all pull a trigger.
    Say there are two guys, or one with a bigger gun? If I were a criminal, the only difference a high chance of an armed victim would make is that I would shoot him first, instead of just robbing him.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm no anti-gun-advocate (although such laws can be useful in urban areas). I'm just saying that a gun is not a proper replacement for the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    -
    -the most well-funded police force can't be everywhere at once; they'd still arrive after the fact in their gold cop cars with silver bullet machine guns or whatever.
    This is not a binary question. You can improve reaction-time by installing small police-forces in local communities. It works in many countries. I do realize that the USA is a huge country with very rural regions; still the fact that it can not become perfect doesn't mean that improvement is not possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    It is a shame people like hyperbole. I know you aren't suggesting we turn America into a police state?
    If a country can be classified as a police-state is a question of what the police does and in how far it is providing a service to the people, or if it is a tool of oppression and harrassment. Not a question of how many policeman there are.

    The government needs funding, people vote against funding, and the result is services don't get funded. Now, your argument is the richest nation in the world should fund all of these municipalities right? The same place where MILLIONS of people cry, please read our media, about government controlling everything? These SAME PEOPLE who voted not to raise taxes to fund their own area. So, instead you want to blame the government for following the will of the people?
    Here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
    True that - if the people don't want a proper police, than so be it. But then those people have to accept that no one will help a women getting raped on a weekend.

    Hmmmmmm............
    Just saying, it was founded on individual Independence coming together in times of war.
    I had meant that in a more basic, sociological way...
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2013 10:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nils View Post

    If a country can be classified as a police-state is a question of what the police does and in how far it is providing a service to the people, or if it is a tool of oppression and harrassment. Not a question of how many policeman there are.
    You inserted "richest nation" which makes this comment in correlation to my point. When the federal government starts paying for state services, not just giving grants and federal assistance, they are building a standing army. You are basically describing the National Guard. If they are PAID by the Feds, they become the police. Now, the government is "policing that state."

    You took it away from the police, so I was never addressing "how many policemen there are." I'm explaining that what you inserted into the argument would build a "police-state" which Americans hate, even when it doesn't exist.
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