Thread: Does Chin Na influence jujutsu?
5/24/2013 4:33am, #1
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- May 2013
Does Chin Na influence jujutsu?
Elsewhere, it is written that, in 1626-27, Fukuno learned Chinese kenpo from Chin Genpin (Chen Tsu U) at the Kokushoji temple in Asabu. Incorporating elements of it into the styles of jujutsu he knew, he created Ryoi Shinto.
Since Chinese culture has influenced countries like Japan and Korea, Chinese martial arts has influenced their indigenous styles as well. Aikido and Jujutsu developed in Japan, and Hapkido found in Korea had taken their chin na technqiues from Chinese matials arts.
What kind of techniques from Chin Na that influence jujutsu?
5/24/2013 6:09am, #2
Hi mate, you have posted this in the wrong section. It is best to read the threads that say "YOUR NAME: Read this" before posting because there are certain guidelines that this site runs on.
This forum is the Advanced Grappling forum, to post here it would be best if you read this before doing so:
Your thread would probably do better in the Chinese Martial Arts forum.
It will be moved shortly, so don't repost, just for future reference read the forum guidelines so your stay here is pleasant. Some of us can get a bit crabby when posts are in the wrong section.GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
5/24/2013 7:23am, #3
Moved here from its original location"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
5/24/2013 10:06am, #4
Chin na is very misunderstood because of the large volume of shitty instruction and slapstick examples, especially online and in books and movies, that lead people to believe the purpose of Chin na is to get your opponent to his knees with a pinky hold. Not so.
It includes a HUGE number of diverse techniques from antiquity across multiple styles. The ones people commonly know about are the ones that made their way into the Japanese arts and then into things like BJJ: arm bar, kimura-type locks, etc. This could be because these are high percentage techniques in Chin na, and very effective compared to the many more esoteric, application specific techniques that never made their way into jujutsu, judo, or BJJ. Most of those involve the small joint manipulation designed to cripple opponents, something that is nowadays frowned upon in civilized society. Again note those techniques are not meant, as in the movies, to force your opponent to his knees in some painful hold, but to literally break fingers and hand and wrist and elbow joints or at least threaten it.
In traditional CMA, Chin na techniques are not necessarily used the same way a similar technique would be used in Judo or BJJ. For example in both those arts, the primary reason you'd use an armbar is to force a submission, usually on the ground.
In Southern Chinese martial art on the other hand, a chin na hand/arm lock would have been a precursor to cranking or striking through the elbow to destroy the limb with a fist or forearm. That said, the "safe" way to train this is simply to go for the arm lock itself, which is what you end up seeing in judo/BJJ. If you go back far enough, traditional jujutsu probably has those "unsafe" techniques too. I know very little about JJJ.
Think of Chin na this way: once upon a time, a basic armlock was a very dangerous thing to get yourself in to, because unlike the submission locks we see today, in the old days it probably meant your arm was fucked.
Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/24/2013 10:24am at .
5/24/2013 10:34am, #5
5/24/2013 11:42am, #6
5/26/2013 10:56pm, #7
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- Guilin, China
- Sanda, Taijiquan ( Chen)
I love how that ended the thread. I would like to add that, in my experience, it is pretty useless to learn Qinna techniques in isolation. In Taiji, for instance, you must train Shenfa (how to move the body), sensitivity and relaxation to apply any of that stuff. You must also strengthen/harden the hands/arms/fingers. They also come with strikes and takedowns. No one just sits there and asks "Can you get out of this??"