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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    There's not enough words to describe my existence.

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 5:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiPhil889 View Post
    part of me can't help but be thankful that this has been filmed and given such a wide audience.
    Naturally. Unfortunately it's exactly what terrorists wanted.

    Remember, they told people in the crowd to film them. Those people could have refused and just run away but they stayed and essentially cowered to terrorist demands, on camera, for the whole world to see.

    So, the entire video becomes terrorist propaganda...the type that emboldens future attacks.

    Based on our discussion, it's not like this video is going to embolden future crowds to engage in heroics against cleaver-wielding extremists.
  2. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 5:09pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Naturally. Unfortunately it's exactly what terrorists wanted.

    Remember, they told people in the crowd to film them. Those people could have refused and just run away but they stayed and essentially cowered to terrorist demands, on camera.

    So, the entire video becomes terrorist propaganda...the type that emboldens future attacks.
    I'm pretty sure the event would've made international news without accompanying video.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 5:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I'm pretty sure the event would've made international news without accompanying video.
    Sure, but it's the video that is most traumatizing, much like video of the 9/11 attacks is more horrifying than just reading about it in the news.

    Boston was no different. Those bombs were placed where they were because they knew there would be cameras at the finish line to capture it all, live.
  4. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 6:14pm


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    There do seem to be reports that the attackers demanded that bystanders film them and their ranting. I know that's not a reason to necessarily do it, but in that situation who knows how you react when confronted by a screaming lunatic demanding you video the scene?

    Besides, if you can't do anything to save the victim you can at least make damn sure there is plenty of evidence to send the criminals away for a long time. (I'm 100% sure not all the bystanders thought like that, but it's certainly something I've thought of when confronted with an accident scene in the past, so I imagine it would have occurred to at least someone)

    Throughout the frenzied attack the two killers shouted ‘Allah Akbar’ – Arabic for ‘God is great’ – then demanded horrified witnesses film them as they ranted over the crumpled body.
    Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...or-attack.html

    The murder appeared to have been planned to ensure maximum publicity, with the killers urging witnesses to take their picture “as if they wanted to be on TV”. One witness, identified only as James, said he and his partner watched in horror as they realised what they were seeing. He shouted at the men to stop, only for one of them to pull out a gun and threaten to shoot him.
    After driving his car further up the road, he stopped and called the police, telling them to bring armed units.
    Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...er-attack.html

    The men made no attempt to flee and encouraged people to take pictures of them and the victim.

    In footage obtained by ITV News, one of the men was filmed wielding a bloodied meat cleaver and making political statements.
    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634468
    Last edited by Katje; 5/23/2013 6:19pm at .
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 6:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While the thought of someone standing there filming is sicking on the surface it does have a practical application in that it does document the tragedy in a manner that can be useful in the pursuit of justice.

    Also condolences are given.
  6. KiwiPhil889 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 7:10pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Naturally. Unfortunately it's exactly what terrorists wanted.

    Remember, they told people in the crowd to film them. Those people could have refused and just run away but they stayed and essentially cowered to terrorist demands, on camera, for the whole world to see.

    So, the entire video becomes terrorist propaganda...the type that emboldens future attacks.

    Based on our discussion, it's not like this video is going to embolden future crowds to engage in heroics against cleaver-wielding extremists.
    I see where you are coming from,but i don't agree on its significance. They weren't just gory spectators,but ppl who had been cowed into filming it,and i'm not sure how many other ppl would have reacted differently in the same situation. However,that said,just because the ppl filming it were cowed into submission and apathy,does not mean i have to be. I can have to benefit of distance and time,something the filmers had none of.

    As to the terrorists getting what they want,i.e world notoriety,so what?? their notoriety isn't suddenly going to make me change my mind and convert,i'm still going to watch it and think they must be some sick fanatical fuckers to do that. Allowing their actions to change my way of thinking and living is when they begin to get what they want i.e massive airport security is a win for the terrorists,but their ultimate victory is the annihilation of You and I.

    If you're sitting at home and after watching the video suddenly become too fearful to leave your house,then yes,they win, but i haven't. In fact i'm about to go out and go to the mall to grab a burger.

    Sorry for the slight derail. Still a story i thought would only happen in horror movies/documentaries or wartorn countries.
  7. Ignoscant is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 8:32pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Firstly; condolences to the people and the family of the deceased. To survive and endure for what one believes in to return home and be assaulted by the people you serve and protect under a governing body that you offer your services is despicable. There are no words I can muster as to the disgust I feel that these .. creatures ( I feel no need to call them people ) should be recognized as anything more than crazed rabid filth that should be removed from society. Terrorist is too good a word; this act of violence was nothing more than a cold blooded murder.

    Onwards; I would like to offer some insight to the situation at hand. We need to take a few things into consideration. The first is that we have two armed assailants with weapons. This immediately puts those that as a single person would step up and do something about it at unrest. With a single armed assailant a person would be able to disarm or disable the attacker without needing to worry about others helping. With two this is simply not the case.

    The second is our ever growing aversion to confrontation. With the advent of guns we have become readily able to defend ourselves and/or others without what we feel is putting ourselves in harms way. We have a direct ability to remove the threat without getting close enough to the threat itself. In this case the option for such is not available. (side note: I do not advocate the carrying of guns and the debate for this subject is a different argument all together) this means that an alternative weapon would need to be found to take out these assailants without putting ones self in harms way.

    Thirdly; we have assailants that have initiated shock value. People are afraid of terrorists. The moment you start yelling anything about Allah and swinging around bloodied weaponry people immediately go into fight or flight mode. Those that are afraid leave the scene. Those that are not reach for the long range weapon of choice. Their cellphone cameras.

    We can assume that it is a disturbing act to be recording such footage; but the act of doing such things may be embedded in several reasoning. Some sick individuals may see it as an opportunity to profit. Some may feel that they are obligated to do something but are unable to; resorting to the only means of activity they feel is capable of keeping themselves safe. Some may even simply do it because others are doing it (monkey see monkey do crowd mentality).

    In the end the psychology of watching a man be .. a man pass away. In such a manor in today's 'safe' society could conjure many emotions especially combined with the media heavy threat of terrorism one person can only speculate how they would act in a situation such as this. And I think anyone with a realistic moment to think would take into consideration that taking on two knife wielding opponents while unarmed would in itself be unwise, especially if that person is unsure that anyone else would help.
    Last edited by Ignoscant; 5/23/2013 8:35pm at .
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 3:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiPhil889 View Post
    If you're sitting at home and after watching the video
    I have not watched the video nor will I. It is something I simply do not need nor want to see it. My heart goes out to their families for both the spectacle around their tragedy and the tragedy itself.
  9. Gluckmann is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2013 11:43am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's scary to think that I'm probably more at risk from these nutters than I am from the IRA.
  10. erezb is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2013 11:56am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I think by successfully forcing people to film them while a frightened crowd stands around in shock while they preach their terrorist rant, they basically completed their goal which was to spread fear. This is a video of a crowd of people unwilling to act.

    I want to see the viral video where two terrorists try something like this and get torn to pieces by the crowd.

    You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
    Sometimes you do see bravery. Not this time though. It comes down to the right guy/gall in the right place/time.
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