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  1. #21
    gregaquaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    LOL did you yell that in theaters or were you watching this at home?

    Caged Muay Thai is pretty cool. I like the idea of striking rulesets using smaller gloves, as it's more realistic. Although, probably also more dangerous.

    As for takedowns, MT definitely has some slick trips and finesse-y takedowns as part of the style. Practitioners get pretty used to dealing with that, but the vast majority that I've encountered (outside of those who also do MMA) can't handle when someone does the comparatively brutish "grab the legs and push forward" type dealy.
    I have been dropped by muay thai guys. It is bloody embarrasing.

    The caged Muay Thai is just a really cool idea. It is a pitty that CMT is sold as a sort of MMA. When it could be sold as a more traditional Muay thai.

    Having watched a few. It does give the clinch more dominance. But yuou only really se it in the undercard. Whether it is skill or the better fighters just don't have the clinching in the skill set. I dont know.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  2. #22
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you follow the history of 52 block back a bit, it becomes part history lesson, part urban mythology. You'll see a lot of boxers mentioned who supposedly trained 52 or even used it in the ring.

    George Foreman
    Floyd Patterson
    Charley Burley
    Pernell Whittaker

    At least one Gracie endorsing 52:



    If you go back even further to the post Revolutionary period, 52 blocks is even associated and attributed to the fighting styles of African folk heros like Tom Molineaux, a powerful bare knuckle boxer they called the "Black Ajax".

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-tom-molineaux

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 9:29am at .

  3. #23
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    This whole thing reminds me of Systema. Why not Box then add dirt and flash? Obviously if you are locked up 52 blocks may be the best option but why study it outside of the correctional system when there are more direct and proven method available?

    I suppose if you like the culture and want to glorify and relive it...
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
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  4. #24
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    If you go back even further to the post Revolutionary period, 52 blocks is even associated and attributed to the fighting styles of African folk heros like Tom Molineaux, a powerful bare knuckle boxer they called the "Black Ajax".

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-tom-molineaux

    Do you have any sources connecting Molineaux to 52 blocks?

  5. #25
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Do you have any sources connecting Molineaux to 52 blocks?
    52 Blocks is a pseudonym for "Jailhouse Rock" or JHR, which seems to be a sort of "family name" for similar styles alleged to go all the way back to the colonial American slave trade.

    This is from Wikipedia but the sources seem to check out at first glance.

    According to Dennis Newsome, a well-known JHR specialist, JHR is an indigenous African American fighting art that has its origins in the 17th and 18th centuries, when slaves were first institutionalized and needed to defend themselves. Oral tradition has the skill evolving secretly within the U.S. penal system, with regional styles reflecting the physical realities of specific institutions. This theory relates JHR to the fusion of African and European/American bare-knuckle fist-fighting styles known as "cutting", which is said to have been practiced by champions such as Tom Molineaux, and also to the little-known African-American fighting skill known as "knocking and kicking," which is said to be practiced clandestinely in parts of the Southern US and on the Sea Islands.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailhou...hting_style%29

    The main philosophy in JHR is to utilize your surroundings (i.e. the walls in a close space) to your advantage. The style also concentrates heavily on defending against armed (blade) attacks.

    JHR is described as a defensive style of boxing or 'dirty boxing'.
    It is close to a street style known as Knocking and Kicking, and to older styles of boxing as well as to Side Hold, an old form of wrestling where one would trip or sweep the opponent to the ground. Some say that old-style capoeira and silat bear the most resemblance to JHR, although JHR has no has no "large, circular kicks".

    Following the indigenous African American fighting art theory JHR would be a fusion of African and European/American bare-knuckle fist-fighting styles known as "cutting", which is said to have been practiced by champions such as Tom Molineaux.

    Most of the time attacks are directed to the head, aiming for a knockout. Techniques include kicking, sweeping and grappling. Elbow strikes, hammer fists, kness and head-butts are also commonly used.

    Some variants such as the more flamboyant Queens 52 blocks are more strategic, using techniques to evade, redirect and bring the opponent off-balance.

    Tactically every part of the body is a potential target. Jailhouse rock movements are characterized by a lot of cunning and trickery.

    The fighting system definitely also has a dramatic element as proven by the "kiss move", where the fighter claps the forearms together to trap a jab, kisses the trapped fist, and then throws back the attacking fist.
    http://www.fullcontactmartialarts.or...-rock-jhr.html
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 11:35am at .

  6. #26
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Important thing to note from the end of that second article, emphasis mine:

    The original styles have probably become nearly extinct in the current penal systems, largely due to the increasing influence of modern boxing.

    In 2008, a number of researchers and practitioners came together in a consortium, known as Constellation 52 Blocks Combat and Fitness, to document the role of Jailhouse Rock, the 52s and related practices in African American cultural history. This has been the most ambitious effort so far to recognize, record and revitalize not only the 52s but also the related dance culture and physical training traditions.

  7. #27
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

  8. #28
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We had some epic 52 Blocks threads back in the day, mostly consisting of myself and a few other lonely souls saying "this stuff is interesting" and vast hordes of rabid bullies mocking the very idea (sight unseen).

  9. #29
    gregaquaman's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    This whole thing reminds me of Systema. Why not Box then add dirt and flash? Obviously if you are locked up 52 blocks may be the best option but why study it outside of the correctional system when there are more direct and proven method available?

    I suppose if you like the culture and want to glorify and relive it...
    Mostly because people have to do some wild stuff to invent new stuff I suppose. Personally I kind of like that people try new stuff.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  10. #30

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    This whole thing reminds me of Systema. Why not Box then add dirt and flash? Obviously if you are locked up 52 blocks may be the best option but why study it outside of the correctional system when there are more direct and proven method available?

    I suppose if you like the culture and want to glorify and relive it...
    52 obviously borrows a LOT from boxing, though it has some things that boxing doesn't, but the biggest difference is in the strategy. The emphasis in 52 is on defense first, and the limb destruction is very entwined within the basic. These are things you learn from the get-go rather than having to gain competency in boxing (where a completely different mindset and strategy is prevalent), then cross-train in some kung fu and FMA, learn some of the tricky stylistic stuff, and then figure out how to piece it all together.

    That sounds like a huge pain in the butt and a recipe for martial identity crisis. You'd have to do SOOO much legwork and to top it off, you'd still probably end up with something pretty different from 52. You can have the same ingredients, but the order in which you arrange (learn) them can result in an entirely different concoction.

    Furthermore, you'd miss out on the art of 52. Why do Judo when you could just do Greco and BJJ? Sometimes we're attracted to arts because they seem cool and interesting, more so than because we want to be good at fighting.

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