7/09/2013 4:56pm, #621
It's my understanding that Mr. Spencer is currently (or has been recently) canvassing other similar training providers for instructor vacancies.
I genuinely wish him well in this respect because although (and he may not believe me) the research into his activities may well have put an effective end to a revenue stream from what was the ICA, but this has never been personal for us or for me. We've just presented the information as we found it.
Mr. Spencer, I know you're keeping up with this thread, how I know that shouldn't be too difficult for you to work out however; I'd again like to offer you an out to this.
This thread and the information we've presented has, although gathered or offered by a number of different people, been very one sided and that's unfair to you. Although I do accept that you probably feel we as a site and the people who've spent their time researching you and your activities have, essentially, interfered in your business livelihood and therefore feel aggrieved toward us, I still feel you have the opportunity to regain your self respect and put your side to a limited number of questions I have.
To this end, and rather than potentially repeat the reception you received over at Martial Arts Planet, would you be willing to have an email dialogue with me? I'll then repost that text into this thread on your behalf.
I'm not talking about a protracted and complex conversation. I have a small number of questions which were formulated from the material in this thread, I can pose them to you and its your choice to answer or ignore them. At max we're talking about a couple of emails each.
I'll ensure, if you don't want to contribute directly yourself, that your point is presented, unedited, on your behalf and in doing so, will offer the appropriate respects in writing for your time and willingness to add something to this thread.
My email addy is hummda1 (at) googlemail (.com)
I hope to hear from you.
Dave"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
7/10/2013 4:52pm, #622
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Richard, if you're reading this please respond to this request! You have the chance to explain yourself to everyone on here!
You were supposed to be my friend! I thought we were friends! I feel totally and utterly betrayed by you! I came into your home and into your family! You promised me a job, you gave me false hope when I could've been looking elsewhere for proper work! You need to understand that you can't play with people's lives like you have - its wrong and it's unfair to give people false hope!
Email Rock Ape Richard - attempt to make things right!
It's all a massive shame Richard! :-(
7/13/2013 4:10pm, #623
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
It's absolutely fantastic that you've devoted so much time to this thread and the research. I began reading from the first page, and, due to my eyes burning, didn't read the entire thread. If this is still an active discussion, please reply. I have a wealth of information and e-mail strings with the ICA and a story to tell.
7/13/2013 4:31pm, #624
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Southeast WI
7/13/2013 4:32pm, #625
Yes this is still an active investigative thread where new information is welcome however, I would like to point out one important caveat to your contribution.
Anything you suggest or any accusation you make MUST be substantiated with some form of tangible evidence.
If you'd rather discuss your information regarding Richard Spencer and the ICA with me first then I'd be happy to do so however, if you feel happy to post the information and the supporting evidence, such as emails - as mentioned in your opening post, then do so however, please do not make this a personal attack on Spencer.
Thank you and welcome to the site.
Over to you."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
7/13/2013 4:39pm, #626
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Absolutely agree. The story involves many communications, both over skype and via e-mail/Linkedin between myself, Richard, Sarah Doherty, and roughly 15 others that worked for DynCorp International. If you'll give me a bit to retrieve all of my e-mails between myself and the ICA, the messages I shared with the others, and the course itinerary, etc.....I'd be more than happy to expose his fraudulent claims and outright dishonesty. It need not be an attack on Richard directly, as the entire "hiring" process, course, and general management of the ICA is appauling.
As a side note, I did not attend his course. Myself and one other backed out several weeks before the course was to begin, as our mounting (albeit late) concerns and lack of answers from Richard during our conference calls regarding his company were just too great to ignore. I believe 5 of the original 15 went that Richard pitched the CQC License course to via conference calls. They have yet to return my $500 course deposit. I'll explain all in detail soon.
Last edited by IntrepidWeapon; 7/13/2013 4:44pm at .
7/13/2013 4:42pm, #627
7/13/2013 8:20pm, #628
I'm actually quite interested with the relationship between Dyncorp and the ICA because Mr Spencer had quite a few employees from there that were listed on his testimonial page. Nothing against DynCorp but I'd like to verify the legitimacy of the statements that were listed on his website.Train hard, fight easy.
7/15/2013 11:39am, #629
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Alright guys, I'm going to divide up what I have to say into several different parts. I feel it may be an easier read and also help paint a more coherent picture of what happened. Please list your questions all at once when you reply. I'm sure I will have left details out of the picture, and any questions will spark my memory.
The Pitch for ICA-as set forth by Richard Spencer
Initial setup and ICA interaction
I am a U.S. Infantry Marine. ( 2003-2007, Anti-tank Assault and former 2nd F.A.S.T., 1st Platoon)
I was on a security contract in Kosovo with DynCorp International Free Zone. This was my first contract,
and, while I'd love to give you the entire backstory for all of it and my complete military credentials, I
don't feel it is necessary. Though, if you would like to know, I'd be happy to go through all of the details
for verification purposes. One of my closest friends and room mate from 2nd Batallion, 8th Marine
Regiment, Fox Company had taken the same contract with me. We both began our contract on March 3rd, 2013.
Shortly after our arrival, although working different shifts, we both began looking for bigger and better
contracts. I met Daniel C. on my first shift and we quickly became friends, along with Walter M.,
Wilmer B., and Joseph P.
I'm sure you'll recognize those names from the list that was expanded and then quickly sized down on
the ICA website. Grant L. was the only one whom I was not friends with, although I was acquainted with
him. Through the business networking site Linkedin, Daniel was contacted by Mr. Spencer about a
potential job offer. Daniel immediately informed myself and about 15 others working both on our shift
and the other two shifts. When we all expressed interest in the limited details that Mr. Spencer had
given Daniel, a conference call was arranged via Skype, and everyone wrote down lists of questions to ask.
In the initial call, Richard spoke with us for about 90 minutes, roughly outlining the process for
joining the ICA as an instructor. He claimed he was looking for 20-30 instructors to teach his courses
worldwide. The basic premise was this: Get enough of our fellow contracters interested to run an
instructor course, send in our resumes, take the course, get our CQC licenses, work in the UK and/or
abroad as many days as we could handle for 300 pounds per day. There was also an operational side
to the ICA, and Mr. Spencer expressed interest in several of our backgrounds. Pretty sweet deal, right?
Some of us were skeptics.
Myself and several others began to do immediate research into Mr. Spencer, mainly turning over
the same stones that you dilligently found yourselves. The various martial arts forums, the closed
websites, the company's virtually brand new listing with the UK, and the ISSA association with ICA and
the subsequent revocation of their CQC licenses by the ICA. Most of our concerns with the online forum
postings were dispelled by Mr. Spencer himself, who addressed them before our prompt and skillfully
swept them under the rug with smooth talk. Remember, we were all very enticed by the proposition and
wanted to believe what he was saying. That is no excuse, however, for our gullibility in some areas.
ICA structure and ISSA involvement
Mr. Spencer, through various phone calls and while answering some of our questions, detailed the
structure of the ICA and its "sister" companies. The ICA is, as Mr. Spencer put it many, many times;
"The governing body and licensing authority for CQC, and the only company in compliance with UK,
UN, EU, and US law, and was a sister company of the International Combat Alliance, International
Combat Consultancy, and International Combat Association. They strictly provided training for licensing
within the CQC community, and the other "sister companies" dealt with logistics and the operational
side of the house. The operational side was rarely discussed during calls, and never in detail. Despite
countless searches for any evidence that the ICA (Alliance) employed any operational contractors, we
found none. In fact, myself and the others doing research were unable to find ANYONE claiming to
possess an ICA-issued license, much less anyone practicing as an instructor currently. Mr. Spencer
claimed that once the instructor course was completed by a student, an interview would be conducted
with the training and operations manager to determine where to best place them within the company.
As most of us had found during our searching, the ISSA was, at one point during 2012, associated with
Mr. Spencer. I confronted Richard with this information during one of our many conference calls with the
group, and his explanation was as follows:
The ICA had contracted their instructors to the ISSA during this time period for the purposes of
licensing their staff, giving them them the ability to train and license police, military, and para-military
forces worldwide. At some point, according to Mr. Spencer, the ISSA violated the laws and regulations
surrounding the licensing process. The entire ISSA staff and anyone they had ever licensed had their
privileges and licenses revoked. This explains the picture on the ISSA website with the group of
instructors with blurred faces. The ICA sued the ISSA for monetary damages and won....again,
according to Mr. Spencer.
I expressed concern with this, as it more or less meant that the ICA had the right to revoke any license
at any time. And, because we knew none of the details of the lawsuit, some of us expressed concern
that we could be fired and blacklisted if Mr. Spencer deemed us to be "violating" laws and regulations at
any time. He confirmed this as basically true, although assured us that we need not worry.
Last edited by IntrepidWeapon; 7/15/2013 11:46am at .
7/15/2013 11:41am, #630
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
ICA website and inconsistencies within the company
I saw that some of you were attempting to verify who the people actually are that have given
testimonials. On the old ICA website and on Mr. Spencer's Linkedin page, nearly all of the testimonials
given were those of HIS EMPLOYEES. Sharon Hollingsworth and a few others had apparently taken
some basic courses from the ICA and generated statements for the website. The others were a
complete mystery during my research.
I'm sure that the lack of contact information, active address and no course date listings also raised an
eyebrow. Mr. Spencer dismissed this question during a conference call, stating that his marketing
department was responsible for seeking out future clients and that most individuals who took his
courses were sought out. In this way, he was able to make the statement that the course dates need
not be listed publicly, as courses were only set up once full. Anyone seeking to join a course would be
told if there were any available slots after contacting the ICA via e-mail.
Mr. Spencer offered no evidence whatsoever that the "sister companies" were operational. He refused to
admit, when asked, that the ICA was a start-up company. He insisted that they had been conducting
training since 2005, and that September (?) 2012 was when they'd officially named the company in
order to be in compliance with UK laws regarding licensing. Questions were also raised regarding the
number of active employees. Mainly along the lines of how he could possibly expect us to believe that
he had enough business for 20-30 new instructors to make 300 pounds a day, 5 days a week, when he
only had around 5 employees listed. Mr. Spencer replied that he had fired all of his other instructors and
was looking to completely re-vamp the company. All of the licensing they had been conducting would
now be our business, he stated.
I was immediately skeptical, as Richard wasn't outlining any processes for background checks, health
examinations, vaccinations, or drug testing, which was VERY thorough in the hiring process through
DynCorp. This struck me as a major red flag due to the liabilities generated from internation contract
and licensing work. Some in the group were of the thought process that the ICA may not be concerned
with such details as we were active employees of DynCorp, and that some of us had completed much
of that testing and screening process within the past 6 months.
Last edited by IntrepidWeapon; 7/15/2013 11:48am at .