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  1. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 12:13pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ricardo Mayorga's MMA debut shows why MMA is not street fighting

    For years, I've been hearing from MMA fans that if an elite boxer ever entered the octagon, it wouldn't even be a fight. The MMA fighter would take the fight to the ground, and submit the boxer instantaneously. Supposedly, it wouldn't even be a fight.

    The example that's always trotted out again and again is Toney vs. Couture.

    Well, another old and washed up boxer made his MMA debut. This time it was Ricardo Mayorga. A submission was tried, but this is what happened.



    Now in case you couldn't get the gif to load, I'll just tell you what happened.

    Wesley Tiffer tried a submission hold on Mayorga, but Mayorga kneed him in the spine, then bludgeoned him with punches.

    Now, this "win" of Mayorga's has caused an outrage in the MMA community. For good reason. Knees to the spine should be illegal.

    But what I believe this also shows is that MMA should not be considered the equivalent to street fighting. If it was, Mayorga's win wouldn't be considered so outrageous.

    You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.

    Either Mayorga is a scumbag for not following the rules, or he's just doing whatever he can to win.
  2. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 1:55pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    16
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.
    MMA is a sport. The majority of the members here fully acknowledge this fact.

    It is also generally considered to be the closest analogue to an unarmed streetfight that still has rules and limitations that protect the participants.

    It seems to me that you are trying to create a false dichotomy in your post.
  3. Psycho Dad is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 2:13pm


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.
    In addition to what jnp said, I'll ask you this then, atomic. What comes closest to to better simulating a streetfight other than Vale Tudo, then? Quite frankly it won't be as easy for Mayorga next time around if his opponent is aware that he might play dirty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  4. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 2:26pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    It seems to me that you are trying to create a false dichotomy in your post.
    No, I'm not trying to create a false dichotomy, I'm trying to say the dichotomy doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
    In addition to what jnp said, I'll ask you this then, atomic. What comes closest to to better simulating a streetfight other than Vale Tudo, then?
    I don't think you can simulate a street fight because street fights are situational.

    MMA attempts to simulate a specific scenario of street fighting. Even so, the limitations of it means it can only simulate so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
    Quite frankly it won't be as easy for Mayorga next time around if his opponent is aware that he might play dirty.
    If you're familiar with Mayorga, however, you'll know that he's always fought dirty. Always.

    Want to know what kind of human being you're dealing with? This kind.

  5. Psycho Dad is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 2:34pm


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I asked what was closest to simulating a streetfight if not MMA. You might not be able to simulate a streetfight 100%, but I'll be damned if it hasn't been the case that just about every martial art/sport hasn't tried to say at one point or another, "Learn from us, we'll show you how to handle yourself in a streetfight."

    Second, not everyone in the world is familiar with Mayorga. Maybe not even his opponent was, however, now that he's shown on his MMA debut that he will fight dirty anyone who'll be facing him in the future will be aware of his tendency to cheat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  6. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 2:57pm

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    9
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    MMA attempts to simulate a specific scenario of street fighting.
    Ah, no. MMA was a competition for comparing the effectiveness of different martial arts against each other. It has since become a fairly lucrative sport with a variety of fighting styles tailored to win at it.

    If this guy wants to test the edges of the rule book, well, that'll probably last up until somebody decides to demonstrate how fast a submission hold turns into a crippling injury. Nothing in the rules against turning somebody's foot backward with a heel hook either.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  7. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 3:28pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    8
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm personally happy when boxers do well in MMA. I think a top quality boxer with a better than decent ground game and excellent take down defense would do extremely well in MMA. Junior Dos Santos comes to mind, although I don't think he was ever a top quality boxer.

    If Mayorga went into MMA with the intention of breaking the rules, he should fight Palhares.
  8. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 3:32pm

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Atomic - the sport of MMA has nothing to prove regarding street effectiveness. You're forgetting the roots of the sport. The techniques used today were validated when the sport's rules could be counted on one hand. No combat sport has earned the right to tout it's practical effectiveness the way MMA has.

    So a guy failed a submission and got beaten up. What's your point?

    Also, one fight serves as proof of nothing. Nobody can be consistently successful in MMA today without some grappling skill, period.
    Last edited by Devil; 5/04/2013 3:38pm at .
  9. Psycho Dad is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 3:52pm


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Coincidentally, here's Mike Tyson on espn acknowledging that he would've needed to learn the ground game if he ever did MMA.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/mma/post/_/i...es-and-charity
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  10. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2013 3:54pm

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    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another thing - the first I heard of this fight was when I read this thread. But a quick search on the almighty interwebs reveals Wesley Tiffer entered the fight with a stellar professional record of 0-1 and was maybe a blue belt. bwahahahahahaha!
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