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  1. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 11:30pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    That explains why he didn't know how to finish a fucking triangle properly.
    Who the **** makes it to pro MMA without knowing to hook the fucking leg if someone starts picking you up?
    I don't know this firsthand, but a couple of guys have told me it's not that very difficult to go from ammy to entry-level-pro.

    Now booking a pro fight that pays out well, in a guaranteed manner...that's likely another story.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @ atomicpoet:

    Seriously though, the real lesson here should be that a guy with more than 100 fights in boxing spent much of his debut mma fight felled, and in a vulnerable position, and didn't use his high-level boxing to any effect.

    That is the lesson. You'd better know some kind of sub grappling if you're involved in mma, unless you plan to no0b flail to an accidental or illegal win.

    It sure as **** isn't "har har boxer won, so mma isn't the most effective for teh str33t". What the hell kind of idiots were you arguing with on Reddit, Homie? People who believe mma has no rules? Who believes that? How dim does someone have to be....and why the hell would you presume posters here on skeptic central would hold that untenable position?

    Anything can happen in a fight, (within the bounds of physics as we understand them). MMA is a young sport, so the sample size isn't massive, considering all the factors involved. Still, I think it's safe to at least draw the conclusion that integrating ranges of engagement with resistant training beats not integrating ranges of combat (even considering the intense aliveness of pro-boxing training).

    Inherently boxing is weaker, when all ranges of h2h are taken into account. This is in spite of the fact that some individuals will prevail.

    I've lost with pocket aces in poker heads up, all in, pre-flop. This, in spite of my being an 86% favorite to win. That doesn't mean pocket aces heads up isn't the strongest hand.

    It just means someone sucked out a flush on me with offsuit pocket cards. It's like that knee to the back. A no0b to mma was dominated without sealing the deal, and he caught a 4th face-up diamond on the river.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 5/08/2013 11:38pm at .
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 12:35am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    7
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zod View Post
    How do you train headbutting, exactly?
    My approach- treat it the way you'd treat the development of other strikes. Get on the heavy bag. Start slow, first learning how to apply torque in a way that won't hurt your own head or spine. Learn to hit without telegraphing, with proper spine alignment. Use the body in a unified pistoning sort of a motion, not a rock-the-head-back-first whipping motion like a drunk idiot. Learn to use it in combination, and/or when closing in.

    People have mentioned its use as a pre-emptive strike. Why? Because you can do it without raising your hand(s) to signal a strike, from a short distance. If the other guy's hands are down, you can grab both wrists as you do it, preventing defense or counter that way. Headbutts are also done from the double lapel grab, which can be assisted by pulling in. So, this could be used in some mean ol street judo.

    Learning to headbutt sort of automatically teaches headbutt defense. If someone tries to headbutt your face, what's the first thing to do? Tuck your chin down to expose the hairline to the front, bracing the spine for impact, just like you would if you were the one headbutting. If they do a rocking back headbutt and aim right for your face, they'll smash their own face against your hairline, and you'll win that exchange. This headbutt defense is very intuitive and will work if the guy grabs your arms so you can't defend with them.

    There are 2 schools of thought about what part of the head to hit with. Some say the hairline because its a solid part of the head and the neck position is pretty good. Others say that side of the head, because if you cut your head it'll be on the scalp and clot up or run down the side, instead of running into your own eyes. But the spine has to twist to do this, and I'm not sure that's good for taking impact.

    If you learn to hit with your head, you'll see the many opportunities it can fit in and you'll be less afraid of hurting yourself (but don't be overconfident).

    Holy Moment, you truly are a scholar of Youtube violence.
    Last edited by Permalost; 5/09/2013 12:38am at .
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 6:23am

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     Style: 血鷲

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    Maybe he trains the iron nose technique.

    Buttholes.
    Weapon...and targets?

    For some reason, I feel compelled to leave this specialized form of training to others.
  4. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 7:24am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    -5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    If JKD was just like MMA they wouldn't have to.

    Who in MMA comes from JKD camps?
    Ummmm...I didn't say JKD is just like MMA.

    I had to ask my sifu about your second question. He said James Wilks was one, Straight Blast Gym, Ron Balicki, and Eric Paulsen.

    Seriously, why is this so difficult for you people? Take MMA, then add self-defense tactics. Some people don't train for competition, but that doesn't mean they don't use the same training methodology. If they're training for something else, they may change somethings, spar more than one person at a time, do MMA sparring with Kali sticks and knives, start from a different situation than just walking to the middle of the ring and tapping gloves.

    Your semantics are dumb. Does anyone here actually know anything other than derp-derp I train for sports?

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    This is very true, but those moves have porpose in they can be used in a safe enviroment. Its not so much I think the headbut is completely useless I think time is better served on other things.
    You defend yourself like a dolphin.

    Suddenly your entire argument makes more sense.
  5. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 7:31am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zod View Post
    How do you train headbutting, exactly?
    My sifu just taught it last week, so...

    He explained that it's a clinch move, like you said, when someone's grabbing your close. You lock your neck, not whip it like you see in the movies cuz that will knock you out or give you whiplash, and you use your core and your thighs. You butt forward with it like a goat does.

    I just started learning the headbutt, so we just practiced punch combos and then went to clinch. When we clinced the other person put their focus glove on their chestbone and we butt that. The more advanced students did it to my sifu while he was wearing a kung fu helmet with a face cage. He said his sifu used to make them headbutt him while he was wearing a motorcycle helmet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Pepper View Post
    Can't say for anybody else, but I put it in focus mitt training - f'rinstance, against a jab/cross/hook, responding with parry/bob & weave, and the feeder finishes with a mitt against the chest, so you can drive forward from the bottom of the weave, with a Zidane-style headbutt.
    OMG that's exactly what we did!
  6. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 7:34am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    Why the **** would one headbutt with their head facing the attacker straight?
    Goodlun.
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 9:09am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    8
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StayGuapa95 View Post
    Ummmm...I didn't say JKD is just like MMA.
    You said " its just like MMA only for street fighting. "

    I had to ask my sifu about your second question. He said James Wilks was one, Straight Blast Gym, Ron Balicki, and Eric Paulsen.
    Ron Balicki is one of my teacher's friends.

    Seriously, why is this so difficult for you people? Take MMA, then add self-defense tactics.
    There's plenty of JKD that isn't that at all. Please don't assume your simple view of everything is incapable of being understood by us.
    Some people don't train for competition, but that doesn't mean they don't use the same training methodology.
    Competing IS part of MMA methodology.

    If they're training for something else, they may change somethings, spar more than one person at a time, do MMA sparring with Kali sticks and knives, start from a different situation than just walking to the middle of the ring and tapping gloves.
    At what point isn't it MMA then?

    Your semantics are dumb. Does anyone here actually know anything other than derp-derp I train for sports?
    I've been pretty nice, but **** this bitchy comment. See my thesis on the headbutt above. I've also written extensively about weapons. Got a big old trophy for stickfighting 2 weeks ago. You wouldn't imagine how many noobs have come here and started telling us that we, who have studied for years, are the ignorant ones.

    You're a beginner, don't fall into the trap of thinking you know it all because you've done a little JKD.

    You defend yourself like a dolphin.

    Suddenly your entire argument makes more sense.
    Dolphins approve of headbutting, Goodlun doesn't/
  8. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 9:24am


     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    Source first, please.
    I believe I heard him talk about it during an interview promoting his 1989 bio of Tyson, Fear and Fire. I'll work on pinning down an exact reference. Torres's book also quoted Tyson as saying that he landed his best punch ever on then-wife Robin Givens and that he liked to cause women pain, make them bleed, and hear them scream when having sex. Tyson denied the accuracy of those quotations.

    Teddy Atlas (who trained Tyson in his mid-teens under Cus D'Amato) has kept things vague, for the most part, but has also made it clear that Tyson exhibited a lot of serious character flaws during the years he lived and trained with Cus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Atlas
    I happen to know what Tyson was, and where he was heading when Cus was alive. He was already doing things that were wrong, but they were being covered better. Jim Jacobs and Cus were doing a good job with the press, but he was doing terrible, horrible things. A lot of the things that came to light later, he was already doing, you just didnít know about it. Iím giving you an informed answer. When I say nothing would have changed if Cus had lived longer, I know because Tyson was already headed that way before he died.
    http://www.whatiwannaknow.com/2011/12/teddy-atlas/
    In an on-camera interview for the "Biography" TV documentary series episode, "Mike Tyson," Atlas also says that Tyson repeatedly forced girls into bathrooms in order to "have his way with them."

    Atlas (a pretty rough customer himself) left working with D'Amato and Tyson after (according to Atlas, Tyson, and fellow D'Amato protege' and Tyson-trainer Kevin Rooney) Atlas threatened Tyson with a pistol to the head and by firing a round near him, because (according to Atlas) Tyson had repeatedly threatened to sexually abuse an 11-year-old female member of Atlas's family.

    Here is Atlas telling that story to Dan LeBatard
    Last edited by ChuckWepner; 5/09/2013 9:30am at .
  9. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 10:29am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    -4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    You said " its just like MMA only for street fighting. "
    See those last three words?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Ron Balicki is one of my teacher's friends.
    Cool. Who's your teacher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    There's plenty of JKD that isn't that at all. Please don't assume your simple view of everything is incapable of being understood by us.
    I'm not, but it certainly seems that way, since a bunch of you seem to want to jump on everything I've posted. It's like mass attack day in class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Competing IS part of MMA methodology.
    Everyone who does MMA competes? Everybody? In every MMA school in every state in America? Everybody competes? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    At what point isn't it MMA then?
    I guess at some arbitrary semantic point to be determined by the knowledgable posters at Bullshido.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I've been pretty nice, but **** this bitchy comment.
    Mysoginist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    See my thesis on the headbutt above. I've also written extensively about weapons. Got a big old trophy for stickfighting 2 weeks ago. You wouldn't imagine how many noobs have come here and started telling us that we, who have studied for years, are the ignorant ones.
    I'm supposed to assume all of that about the posters on this site? I'm sorry, but I'd rather take the word of my sifu on headbutting than some anonymous poster named Goodlun on the internet. Are you different than him? Am I supposed to give your semantics more faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    You're a beginner, don't fall into the trap of thinking you know it all because you've done a little JKD.
    I'm a beginner at JKD. I've been doing martial arts for over 10 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Dlphins approve of headbutting, Goodlun doesn't/
    They hit with their snout, so if Goodlun is all worried about breaking his nose, maybe he does defend himself like a dolphin.

    Nose first.
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2013 10:35am

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     Style: BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StayGuapa95 View Post

    Your semantics are dumb.
    You defend yourself like a dolphin.
    Nice, make a typo joke in the same rant as complaining about semantics.

    Quote Originally Posted by StayGuapa95 View Post

    Does anyone here actually know anything other than derp-derp I train for sports?
    What part about the sport techniques are inclusive of the self defense tactics. See what JNP had to say about it. Its 100% true. Now take that with the fact that when you are in a superior position you have all sorts of options. So lets say you didn't spend time worrying about head butting but instead worked on other fight finishing moves that so happen to also be legal for sport. You haven't lost anything.

    Your only argument that is slightly valid is if we want to get into weapons. However if I were interested in weapons I would be looking at Dog Bros stuff as an add on.

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