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  1. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 5:40pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here:



    That's it.
  2. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 5:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here:



    That's it.
  3. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 9:59pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who would win a fight between Michael Dokes and Remco Pardoel, circa 1994?
  4. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 9:30am


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Who would win a fight between Michael Dokes and Remco Pardoel, circa 1994?
    Which ruleset? ;)
  5. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 9:52am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    AP, stop circling around it and just say what you wanna say: Boxing is just as good as MMA for self defense.

    Allow me to preemptively reply with a "No, it's not".

    EDIT: Damn IiF beat me to it.

    Hey, streetfighting isn't just self-defense! According to former light heavyweight Champ and Cus D'Amato protege' Jose' Torres, when he was working Tyson's camp in Catskill, Tyson used to make recreational trips back into NYC to mug elderly people.

    So, how about it, Suit? Do you have any evidence that MMA has been used in offensive streetfighting against the elderly (preferably by at least a top-ranked competitor if not by someone who later became champion)?

    Admittedly, it seems as though a couple of thumping body kicks followed by a guillotine, or a suplex leading to some full-mounted ground-and-pound, would get granny to turn over her Social Security check IN THE CAGE, but has a Tim Sylvia or an Andrei Arlovski ever *proved* (as Iron Mike allegedly did) that his sport's techniques would really work offensively in the streets?
    Last edited by ChuckWepner; 5/08/2013 9:54am at . Reason: Clarification
  6. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 12:11pm


     

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With regard to the experience issue, one significant point hasn't come up. We start with:

    Mayorga 38 pro fights (plus 1 NC) - Tiffer 1.

    Ah, but Tiffer also had 5 amateur (or unsanctioned?) fights and (atomicpoet says) "amateur experience means a lot" (although atomicpoet disagrees, and offers the weaker claim that "an amateur record counts for something").

    So, that's Mayorga 38 fights - Tiffer 6.

    Except Mayorga fought as an amateur. He won 103 amateur fights and lost a few (I haven't found an exact number).

    So, that makes Mayorga c. 145/150 fights - Tiffer 6.

    As to the fight itself, what did we see? Tiffer spent most of the fight in a full mount on top of Mayorga. He had no trouble taking him down, and repeatedly moved into full mount with little difficulty. Then, for much of the fight, he lay flat on top of Mayorga. Either the size difference, or fear of Mayorga striking from the bottom, or his lack of experience, kept him from raising his upper body to generate significant ground & pound. And when Tiffer tried for submissions, he seemed not to know at all how to keep control of Mayorga, so that submission attempts by Tiffer typically led to Mayorga (more or less) escaping, followed by Tiffer easily getting him back into mounted position.

    Tiffer seemed tentative all fight, while Mayorga's conditioning wasn't tested at all because Tiffer didn't seem to have the will to make Mayorga work much at all as he lay on his back. I'm not sure what this fight showed, except that Tiffer has very weak offense, Mayorga would be destroyed by anyone with either decent ground & pound or decent submissions from mount, and one shouldn't expect much from guys having their 1st or 2nd pro MMA fight close to 40.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 12:30pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    A boxer, who comes from a sport where only punches are allowed, wins an MMA match, using techniques that are not allowed in either boxing or MMA. Doesn't this suggest that a trained fighter can use t3h d34dly in a streetfight without specifically training for it?
    It really suggests any strike can potentially be "t3h d34dly" and why we use rules to keep from killing each other for competition and entertainment.

    Here is a man dying from a single punch from a soccer player. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-dies/2136379/

    Note this is American soccer...I know the non US bullies are laughing. In their parts of the soccer world, they burn whole stadiums to the ground.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/08/2013 12:37pm at .
  8. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 12:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckWepner View Post
    So, how about it, Suit? Do you have any evidence that MMA has been used in offensive streetfighting against the elderly (preferably by at least a top-ranked competitor if not by someone who later became champion)?
    Against the elderly? No. But Alexander Emelianenko reportedly fought in streetfights as a teenager and possibly a riot. He also allegedly served 3.5 years in prison, but he denies that. So that's pretty close.

    We have Roger Huerta, who On August 10, 2010, Huerta engaged in a street fight outside a bar around 2 AM in Austin, Texas, as reported by TMZ. In the video, a man alleged to be Huerta is seen exchanging words with and defending himself against a man, Rashad Bobino, a former Texas Longhorns linebacker, who had just assaulted a woman.

    Guy Mezger fought a guy who pulled a knife on him, and ended up beating the **** out of him, if I remember correctly.

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  9. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 1:11pm

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    4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Another thing - the first I heard of this fight was when I read this thread. But a quick search on the almighty interwebs reveals Wesley Tiffer entered the fight with a stellar professional record of 0-1 and was maybe a blue belt. bwahahahahahaha!
    That explains why he didn't know how to finish a fucking triangle properly.
    Who the **** makes it to pro MMA without knowing to hook the fucking leg if someone starts picking you up?
  10. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 3:15pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Which ruleset? ;)
    PitFighting.

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