Okay folks, here's the real story on this thread. Kai didn't even know what a side kick was. I am not kidding. Now, I don't mean he didn't know how to do it my way or "right". He literally did not know anything about it, like he had never seen one or heard of it. I literally spent 20 mins trying to show him and he felt dumb and it hurt his feelings even though i was nice about it. He was arrogant, a know-it-all, and like in the video on this thread (if that's Kai) he only sparred much smaller people. He was a bully. My student had been studying about 4 or 5 months and Kai had about 10 years of muay thai sparring experience he said. So my student couldn't beat him? Well...yeah... Also, Kai is about 6'5" and my student was about 5'9" and 60lbs or so lighter...but that's Kai's M.O. Kai could completely suck and still hurt people just with his size--especially since he always picked skinny, lighter, shorter partners. All he knew was shin kick, elbow. Anyway, I was an NCO and Kai was an E-2 or E-3 and the class mentioned was on base. Now, if I say, "Okay Kai, let's fight and knock that enormous chip off your shoulder" and he gets hurt it's my career and the class goes away, thus screwing over all the other students who actually wanted to learn. As the NCO I would bear primary responsibility for whatever happened even if Kai had begged me to hit him. So he came to my class one time and was too busy on his "ME ME ME!" vibe like he was going to convert us with all his 19 years on the planet and his vast experience that did not include one of the most basic kicks (or most anything else) that everyone in every style knows.
I train with a guy occasionally who is a Yoshukai Karate Black belt. He knows his **** and is a pretty good fighter. Yeah, he does all the katas and that stuff but his sparring is pretty good.
I've seen him fight in some local tough man competitions and he did good. He won more than he lost.
I don't personally like the style (because of the katas) but it is pretty good.
So to the OP: the style is not a crock of ****.
I don't see the actual Shingo-ha but I see references to it on different sites. No reason to think it is BS.
Last edited by Diesel_tke; 1/17/2009 10:20am at .
Reason: adding links.
Thanks. Yoshukai is one of the few styles of traditional karate that uses shin kicks. The thing about katas is that they are codified. Back in the day the only place big enough to train was a field. You didn't want the guy you were training to fight to be able to see what you were planning to do, so it was hidden a little. For example, 99% of the time you turn in a kata it is a throw. They didn't want to spell it out for all their potential opponents. The problem is most people don't know how to read kata so they think it's a dance or some pretty crap to do for a tournament and most of the karate bigmouths are people who don't anything about good karate. They don't connect kata to fighting or sparring or self-defense. The reality is kata are the syllabus for each style. That is where everything really originates. It's like a person with a 10 word vocabulary saying he's a word master, and he has a dictionary in his pocket but never opens it.
Yeah, I understand all the meaning of the katas and stuff. I'm not bashing them. It just isn't my thing. But I can tell you one thing. The guy I train with(who is a Yoshukai Blackbelt) has almost the same techniques that I use from kickboxing. He told me that there are some kickboxing champions who came from Yoshukai backgrounds.
I have seen their sparring and it is very hard and realistic. They also do a winter thing every year where they go to the beach in the winter and train in the water. I've actually been there and seen that. It was pretty cool.
a couple quick examples of things in kata that look pointless but aren't:
1. Low stances. Ahhhh, but they are for stuffing a takedown, or they are often takedowns themselves. Get in any kind of underhook position with the other hand pushing down your opponent's head or wrist, or neck. Now freeze. Look at yourself. One hand is palm-up and close to your body (like you're preparing to punch in a karate kata) one is extended--either in a fist like a punch or low block or it is open like a karate chop or palm strike. And you are probably in a low stance. --but if you're not, that's okay cuz there are high stances in karate too with the hands doing the same thing.
2. Karate chops...ever seen one used in MMA? Nope. Why not? Not allowed. Ever seen elbows to the back to defend against a takedown attempt in MMA? Not since Paul Varlans...why? They worked. Too well. MMA was in danger of getting shut down, so they had to make it safer and that also made matches longer lasting and more fun to watch. As someone who has knocked out at least ten people with light to medium impact "karate chops" I can tell you they're quick, mostly painless, and effective. So a trademark move of karate is not allowed in MMA because it ends things too quickly and for the most part humanely and...i admit....boringly....yet people say karate is crap because of MMA. Why don't we all just agree that either the people who we've seen in the UFC that claimed karate sucked or the rules constrain karate too much for it to be effective in an octagon? Remember the guy called "the hammer" or something who professed to be a 5th dan in TKD but didn't throw a single kick and got knocked out with a punch to the temple?
Well, most competitions are really kickboxing competitions or grappling competitions so you have to conform to the format. The rules support the format. I agree with what you say about Yoshukai sparring. Kata weren't meant to spar with. kata are mostly made up of one side of a series of two-man drills for taking someone out quickly. i.e. neck breaks (every turn and punch), or elbows (which can only be glancing now in UFC rules), ankle breaks, etc...
this thread is in a section of the site called "MABS" which is for
Which is designed for you to directly refute what you consider to be the fallacy's in Kai's discussion.
The official forum for Bullshido. SERIOUS discussion on McDojos, questionable Martial Artists, and Martial Arts History only. Help us fight fraud in the Martial Arts by contributing well-thought-out threads and ideas on the subject.
This is our showcase forum and raison d’Ítre; please keep to the subject at hand and take the squabbling to YMAS or Trollshido. Strongly moderated for On-Topic posting.
You don't resurrect a 2 1//2 yr. old thread with kata discussion on this section of the board. If you wish to discuss the kata of your style, go here:
Karate, Judo, and Jujitsu - Japanese Martial Arts Forum - No BS Martial Arts
The Japanese Style section.
If you wish to post a more detailed account of Kai's visit to your school, please do so. Include day and date, approximate times, what was discussed and with whom, with whom Kai sparred and under what conditions and ruleset, discussions afterwards...etc.
This will allow Kai to refute what you stated and evidential facts can be presented.
Otherwise, you are likely to be viewed as not being the actual party in question.
I will be sending a PM to Airman Kai letting him know of your posting......he hasn't been around much, however it will allow him to further his stance on the situation and I am going to report the kata and facepalm posts as they don't belong in MABS.
Have you seen Kai? It's pretty unlikely that you'll find someone his size, much less someone that makes him small by comparison.
Originally Posted by niseishi
Also, when we sparred and the Throwdown, he was completely in control with all of his sparring. He didn't hurt a single person, and he never upped the intensity of a match. I don't care about the modern vs. traditional debate that's happening here, but I'd like to state that your version of Kai is much different than the one I met.
Check for a goatee. Evil bizarro twin?
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